Repeat offenders - can they be rehabilitated or not, or should they be locked up?

[Revi]

Everyone that was guilty always is and will always be so, right?

No, but to play devils advocate here; people who have served a prison sentence is MUCH more likely to commit a crime again, and in some countries the majority of them do. So while not a good way to run society, locking people up forever is a surefire way to decrease overall crime. It's a horrible idea overall, but it works for that one purpose, which is why I think a lot of people like the idea.

[Rukentuts]

No, but to play devils advocate here; people who have served a prison sentence is MUCH more likely to commit a crime again, and in some countries the majority of them do. So while not a good way to run society, locking people up forever is a surefire way to decrease overall crime. It's a horrible idea overall, but it works for that one purpose, which is why I think a lot of people like the idea.

A testament to a combination of factors including not addressing underlying factors and mandatory minimums.

[DEATHETERNAL]

You don't get it, which is expected. You're advocating a program that is a massive opportunity for government abuse in this weird false dichotomy you've constructed. Its just fractal wrongness.

Then explain it to me instead of simply stating one concept that is completely unrelated to the basic principle behind what I stated while somehow expecting it to mean something profound despite its irrelevance.

[time0ut]

I think most types of criminals could be rehabilitated if we had a justice system geared towards it. Some types of criminals (sexual predators for example) probably can't be rehabilitated without some advances in medicine.

[Wells]

Then explain it to me instead of simply stating one concept that is completely unrelated to the basic principle behind what I stated while somehow expecting it to mean something profound despite its irrelevance.

I just did. You're creating a system where people will be arbitrarily banished. That's like the oldest form of government abuse. I mean shit I know you've heard of Siberia.

[Revi]

A testament to a combination of factors including not addressing underlying factors and mandatory minimums.

Even in Norway which (afaik) has the lowest recidivism rates and incredibly low sentences, criminals are by far much more likely to commit another crime again compared to the rest of the population. In many first world countries, the majority of prisoners do.

Sad fact is, there's only so much you can do to address underlying factors such as upbringing, core attitudes and environment/family/friends. Apart from years of therapy, complete relocation, education and long-term support for all prisoners(which creates a whole new set of problems), you can't even hope to bring their recidivism rates down to that of regular people.

If it was so apparent as you make it out, I'm sure as least 1 country would have gotten remotely close. For now, we have to release people well knowing that they're very likely to commit another crime, because there's no alternative.

[Vizardlorde]

I think most types of criminals could be rehabilitated if we had a justice system geared towards it. Some types of criminals (sexual predators for example) probably can't be rehabilitated without some advances in medicine.

Robotics might solve it too just give them extremely jealous child shaped sexbots that will mutilate them if they go after a real child :S

[DEATHETERNAL]

I just did. You're creating a system where people will be arbitrarily banished. That's like the oldest form of government abuse. I mean shit I know you've heard of Siberia.

I'm not sure whether you think people simply get randomly convicted of serious crimes multiple times over, or whether you don't know what the word arbitrarily means.

[Wells]

I'm not sure whether you think people simply get randomly convicted of serious crimes multiple times over, or whether you don't know what the word arbitrarily means.

"serious crime" is the very definition of arbitrary.

[Rukentuts]

If it was so apparent as you make it out, I'm sure as least 1 country would have gotten remotely close. For now, we have to release people well knowing that they're very likely to commit another crime, because there's no alternative.

20% is pretty damn good.

[Deleted]

20% is pretty damn good.

That's all penalties. Prison sentences are 44%.

[Rukentuts]

The most humane prison in Norway has a 16% reoffender rate.

[Deleted]

The most humane prison in Norway has a 16% reoffender rate.

One prison.

http://www.kriminalforsorgen.dk/Admi...v_maj_2010.pdf

Shows entirely different numbers.

[Rukentuts]

You mean the prison that does its best to try.

[Revi]

The most humane prison in Norway has a 16% reoffender rate.

It also has a LOT of room per prisoner, and most importantly the prisoners who get to go there are very carefully selected, which means it's not at all representative of.. anything. They pick people that they know will benefit.

[Rukentuts]

It also has a LOT of room, equipment and personnel per prisoner, and most importantly the prisoners who get to go there are very carefully selected, which means it's not at all representative of.. anything. They pick people that they know will benefit.

Any prison needs to prepare its inmates for society. We both know most do not. Institutionalization is rampant.

[Deleted]

Repeat offenders should be eliminated. Whether its life or death penalty they should not be allowed back into society.

Either kill them or work them in a close to slavery. I got no interest in people who don't chip in and live on me working for them.

- - - Updated - - -

It also has a LOT of room, equipment and personnel per prisoner, and most importantly the prisoners who get to go there are very carefully selected, which means it's not at all representative of.. anything. They pick people that they know will benefit.

In reality they will pick criminals who have enough cash to buy them in said system.

[Psilar]

I've seen many criminals who go in and out of the justice system here in Sweden for quite a few years now. Many who come out and commit new crimes again within 1-2 years. Some have even committed new crimes the day they get out, or even when they're going to be released and they've been in a low-security facility and then committed crimes against visitors there.

Are some people even able to be rehabilitated, and if not, what should be done if they can't be when the sentences are time based? How many times should one be able to be sentenced for serious crimes before you actually get locked up for a longer period of time to protect society?

Punishment doesn't change behavior. Psychologists have known this for a long time. Throwing people in jail, will not change their behavior. Killing people is barbaric.

Honestly, lets bring back Australia as a hub for criminals. Lets just dump them there.

[Revi]

Any prison needs to prepare its inmates for society. We both know most do not. Institutionalization is rampant.

Yeah, I don't disagree, but I also don't think it's possible to get recidivism rates anywhere near the level of ordinary citizens. I'm simply saying that people who say that permanently locking of re-offenders are correct that it would reduce crime more than rehabilitation. I don't think we should, but that doesn't make the claim wrong.

[Rukentuts]

Yeah, I don't disagree, but I also don't think it's possible to get recidivism rates anywhere near the level of ordinary citizens. I'm simply saying that people who say that permanently locking of re-offenders are correct that it would reduce crime more than rehabilitation. I don't think we should, but that doesn't make the claim wrong.

Well yeah, if you kill everyone you have a 0% reoffender rate. Like you said there's a point where the statistic is meaningless.