U-kippers.

[Deleted]

Then you'd be an utter retard.

UKIP's main aim is to get out of the EU, yet the majority of London's wealth makers are set against that, and with good reason - being in the EU has been a goldmine for the region of the UK that funds most of the rest, with the likes of the CBI and FT fervently support remaining in the EU, though the EU needs to reform.

The only people that support UKIP are bigots, the fiscally clueless, businessmen who don't want to have to compete with international markets for UK business, and those who want the political clout that would come from being behind such a monumental (stress on the mental) decision, e.g. Farage. The overwhelming majority of UKIP's support fall in the bigot or clueless categories.

This is utter nonsense.

The EU does not financially benefit the citizens of the UK.
Large multinational companies based predominantly in London benefit from the free movement of people that helps to keep labour costs low.
This is good for shareholders as profits can increase as salaries stagnate. This is observable FACT in the UK, these same companies under EU law are allowed to pay their taxes in any EU state, meaning that they make the money in the UK but do not pay the tax in the UK.

Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

The UK is by far the largest consumer of EU products, it is their largest customer. Restricting trade/business simply because it choose not to be ruled from a remote clique of unaccountable name/faceless men would not harm the UK's economy.

If Mexico, Columbia and various other 'remote' independent countries can negotiate an FTA without requiring political integration, why would it not be possible for the UK, considering the financial clout the UK has with the EU?

Regarding the NHS and the smear campaign aimed at UKIP and privatisation... NHS undertook the most rapid and inefficient/costly privatisation under the Labour party, further exacerbated by the Tory party. Farage was suggesting back in 2012 to move to a more direct and transparent system, much how he wants democracy to be more direct and transparent. It would operate similar to the French healthcare service, which is currently the best healthcare service in the world.

The French system allows transparency on how much each individual person actually costs the Healthcare system. Money isn't just thrown at their system with the idea that more money fixes everything. Heck, the French are the kings of bureaucracy and yet our NHS outdoes them for inefficient costly bureaucracy.

The NHS is the sacred cow of the UK, but the NHS of today is not what people think it is. IT NEEDS to be completely restructured, but thanks to Labour and their PFI schemes, it'll be pretty much impossible to remove the privatisation without these entities taking the government to court.

[nevermore]

Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

You can repeat this like a mantra until you're out of breath, it still won't be true...

It pisses me off to no end that anyone would even entertain the idea of leaving the EU, let alone claiming BS such as the quote above... 'lol it's all gon be fine kids!'

No, it really won't. It really, really won't.

At this point leaving the EU would be like trying to separate conjoined twins who share the same organs... They will just wither and die.

Case study: The UK has some of the best universities in the world. Do you have any idea how much money these universities (let's say the UK's top 50) get from the EU for research and other purposes? Do you?
My former uni has just won an EU research grant that is in the hundreds of thousands of £££. That's 1 research grant for 1 department of 1 university. Imagine the sum if you add all universities up. Just... imagine.

And that's just academia. What about the rest of everything else...?

The UK is home to one of the handful of financial capitals of the world. In this global economy if a banker sneezes on Wall Street an entire country on the other side of the world could go bankrupt, because everything is connected and the tiniest hint of instability can send stock brokers into a selling craze.
Do you honestly think leaving the EU would be all fine and dandy?
That the rest of the whole world would just be like "ah ok guys, good for you!" ? Do you?

No, it really wouldn't be OK. The UK's economy, which is one of the strongest economies of the world as of now (gee I wonder if the EU played a role in that), would go into a downward spiral from which full recovery would take decades at best.
All for what? So that we can stroke our Union Jack-covered d*cks and yell YEAH WE SHOWED THEM EUROS HA HA.

Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

The UK is by far the largest consumer of EU products, it is their largest customer. Restricting trade/business simply because it choose not to be ruled from a remote clique of unaccountable name/faceless men would not harm the UK's economy.

1. The UK is still a sovereign country as far as I'm aware. The UK is not ruled by the EU in any way, shape or form. UK laws are still made by UK legislators... and EU-normative laws, while theoretically compulsory for all member states, cannot be forced upon anyone.

2. That 'remote clique of unaccountable names / faceless men' are people who were democratically elected by UK voters among others. It's not my problem that most UK voters can't be arsed turning up to the ballots during the EP-elections.

3. There are dozens of different EU trade agreements in place that remove most of the burdens of international trade between EU member states. What exactly do you think will happen when these agreements are no longer there (since the UK is no longer a member state)?
No, seriously, tell me. What do you think will happen?
Prices will go up for a start, you don't have to be an economist to understand why.

[Kalis]

This is utter nonsense.

The EU does not financially benefit the citizens of the UK.

You're clueless.

Who do you think we are doing business with? Who do you think we are selling to to reach our sales targets? Why do you think financial institutions in London can afford to pay their staff so well?

A net profit of £50 billion in the coffers from being in the EU indisputably benefits the citizens of the UK.

Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

Yet the CBI say otherwise, as does the FT, along with the people I know and have worked with that are senior financiers - though from the rest of the drivel you've written, you probably don't know who the CBI or FT are, and you quite clearly don't have a background in the City or any important financial sector.

The UK economy benefits to a multiple of about four-to-five times what it pays into Europe. My biggest concern with regards to the EU is that citizens of the smaller nations within it will realise we are rinsing them for every penny they have, and they will leave.

Whilst Farage's anti-EU finances rhetoric may play to the rest of the country, he relies on anti-immigration to appeal to Londoners in the financial markets, as he knows that claiming we don't benefit financially from being in the EU will not wash with people who can see on a daily basis that it does.

The claim that leaving the EU isn't going to negatively affect our ability to trade is based on UKIP claiming it wont, not on any basis in reality. We get unrestricted access to European markets at the moment, which wouldn't otherwise be guaranteed, and in my industry, Commercial Insurance, it means we only have a few serious competitors in a huge pool of potential businesses to insure.

The EU is a cashcow.

[Deleted]

As long as the conservatives stay in power and focus on strengthening the private sector, the UK could very well do much better without paying taxes to Brussels.

The problem with Labour is that although they may distribute funding to the public sector more, they try to fund this by taxing rich businessmen.

This leads to business leaving the country, and wealth generation diminishing and the only way to fund the public sector to sell off gold reserves (Gordon Brown) until the country has nothing left.

The only way for a free market to thrive is to tax the rich less, meaning they bring their business to your country.

The only way the UK can do this is to leave the EU.


The choices are thus -

Keep the conservatives in power, let them do their thing and create wealth for the country, leaving the EU in the process, which will help relieve tax laws so more wealth can be created.

Let Labour in power, stay in the EU, squeeze the tax payer out of every last drop, and hope Brussels distributes funds back to the country (more likely they will drip feed it).

Letting the Lib Dems run the country would mean a morally correct but extremely vulnerable nation.

Letting UKIP run the country would just spell incompatible policies and the country would become a total mess.


My personal target would be to aim for wealth. I think that is the lesser evil of all evils.

Conservative gets my vote through logical decision, they are doing a decent job with the economy, and i think the economy is the primary focus for our country at the moment.

[Deleted]

1. The European Court sits above and takes precedent above courts in the Uk.

2. When 'elected' eurpoean officials hold more power than your own countries elected prime minister/president, the onus is on the organisation to make it as democratic and open as possible. When there is only ONE candidate up for the election, it doesn't even matter if you do or don't vote.

3. If upon leaving the EU, any European state refused an FTP, they would be shooting themselves in the foot as they would be putting restrictions up for their largest consumer. Smaller economies have FTAs with the EU, why would the country who spends the most in the EU be restricted?

And to your point on EU funds for unis. Your HILARIOUS! The UK is a net contributor! The money we receive from the EU is simply a rebate on the money we put in, never have we received more than we've given.

Both of you have arguments that hinge entirely on the EU restricting the UK upon an exit. That would never happen.

[Deleted]

If I lived there I'd vote for UKIP just because of EU being retarded.

[nevermore]

Love how you ignored probably the most important point... The volatile nature of the interconnected global economy.

The markets will love the UK's departure from the union. There won't be a staggeringly negative reaction the equivalent of getting punched in the face by Mike Tyson.

No...

I'm glad you find the EU's contribution to funding UK research universities hilarious. I'm absolutely sure the UK government would give them just as much money if we were no longer in the EU.
That was sarcasm btw.

[Deleted]

1. The European Court sits above and takes precedent above courts in the Uk.

2. When 'elected' eurpoean officials hold more power than your own countries elected prime minister/president, the onus is on the organisation to make it as democratic and open as possible. When there is only ONE candidate up for the election, it doesn't even matter if you do or don't vote.

3. If upon leaving the EU, any European state refused an FTP, they would be shooting themselves in the foot as they would be putting restrictions up for their largest consumer. Smaller economies have FTAs with the EU, why would the country who spends the most in the EU be restricted?

And to your point on EU funds for unis. Your HILARIOUS! The UK is a net contributor! The money we receive from the EU is simply a rebate on the money we put in, never have we received more than we've given.

Both of you have arguments that hinge entirely on the EU restricting the UK upon an exit. That would never happen.

1. The european court is no teh EU, and has nothing to do with being in the EU. Also, it protects your rights, its essential.
2. You elect MEPs who vote on everything, you elect MPs who represent you, you elect a government a minister of which has to sign off any decision of the EU before its enacted nationally.....how is that undemocratic again? Oh, you choose not to vote.....your own fucking fault.
3. You would pay more in tarriffs, fact. you woudl still have to comply with Eu regulations, fact, you woudl still have to pay fees into the Eu but with no rebate, no voice and no influence, fact.

you really are talking an incredibly amount of uninformed bullshit.

[Deleted]

1. The european court is no teh EU, and has nothing to do with being in the EU. Also, it protects your rights, its essential.
2. You elect MEPs who vote on everything, you elect MPs who represent you, you elect a government a minister of which has to sign off any decision of the EU before its enacted nationally.....how is that undemocratic again? Oh, you choose not to vote.....your own fucking fault.
3. You would pay more in tarriffs, fact. you woudl still have to comply with Eu regulations, fact, you woudl still have to pay fees into the Eu but with no rebate, no voice and no influence, fact.

you really are talking an incredibly amount of uninformed bullshit.

I live in the south east of England.

It's the most densely populated area in the whole of the EU.

Strangely enough, i feel like i have less rights being part off the EU.

My area is flooded with people, higher percentage of immigrants making up the population.

I have less rights obtaining less NHS queues, less rights of my children obtaining a public school place of my choice due to numbers, less rights to pick a house i want to live in because of house prices and less being available, even less rights to sleep because i have to get up an hour earlier to avoid all the dam traffic on my way to work.

Thanks to the EU, Britain has no say whatsoever as to how many people can enter the country.

My area has been r*aped of any amount of chance it had of ever being a decent sized community.

It's flooded.

Argue all you like how you may think that's a good thing, it isn't, it sucks.

[Deleted]

The only way for a free market to thrive is to tax the rich less, meaning they bring their business to your country.

The only way the UK can do this is to leave the EU.

Teehee, this thread is hilarious

I live in the south east of England.

It's the most densely populated area in the whole of the EU.

Strangely enough, i feel like i have less rights being part off the EU.

My area is flooded with people, higher percentage of immigrants making up the population.

Ever been to Belgium? The most densely populated country in the whole world?

Ever been to Antwerp? Where 51% of the population is non-native?

You are hilarious if you think you have something to complain about.

[Graeham]

Productive immigration that leads to integration isn't a bad thing. Uncontrolled immigration that doesn't result in immigration and instead leads to core elements of a country's native culture being eroded away in certain volatile areas is, however, a very horrid affair. Of course any and all concerns along those lines will be brushed aside in favour of the dull claim that anybody criticising immigration is somehow a racist.

UKIP aren't perfect but they at least had the balls to point out the flaws and negative consequences that arise as the result of poor integration and excessive immigration so it's not difficult to work out why they've gained a lot of support in recent years.

[Deleted]

I live in the south east of England.

It's the most densely populated area in the whole of the EU.

Strangely enough, i feel like i have less rights being part off the EU.

My area is flooded with people, higher percentage of immigrants making up the population.

I have less rights obtaining less NHS queues, less rights of my children obtaining a public school place of my choice due to numbers, less rights to pick a house i want to live in because of house prices and less being available, even less rights to sleep because i have to get up an hour earlier to avoid all the dam traffic on my way to work.

Thanks to the EU, Britain has no say whatsoever as to how many people can enter the country.

My area has been r*aped of any amount of chance it had of ever being a decent sized community.

It's flooded.

Argue all you like how you may think that's a good thing, it isn't, it sucks.

Again, you are talking bullshit.

That whiny bit about NHS queues is just incorrect, and lookign for excuses to wider problems.

I currently live in an area with hardly any immigrants....takes nearly 2 months to see a GP, we have issues with too few children to support schools, we have massive shortages in housebuilding, and houses are 13.5 times the average wage, ......and WTF are you on about less rights to sleep...you are just being absurd there.

The reality is we have deep societal problems in the UK and its our own fault, its not down to immigrants. people like you just refuse to face up to it so blame the outsider.....its an old weakness, one thats plagued humanity throughout history so I suppose its understandable, but until you can face the real issues, these things wont get solved. And people like you put us at risk of leaving the EU and the colossusal fuckup that would be.

Most of our problems are due to the Tory approach to policies...the inequality in our society, the preservation of the status quo by a rich elite, the operation of big business in influencing policies to manipulate the economy to preserve their dominance......but as you are Tory-minded in your political outlook I doubt you can see that.

[Ryme]

I don't support UKIP at all, but god damn I wish a real party would have leaders who speak their mind like this.

[Deleted]

I don't support UKIP at all, but god damn I wish a real party would have leaders who speak their mind like this.

what? be national embarrassments and act like spoiled infants? no thanks.

[Graeham]

what? be national embarrassments and act like spoiled infants? no thanks.

I suppose you'll be criticising Winston Churchill for being brutally honest during WW2, then? A politician being bold enough to speak his mind is pretty refreshing and he's a pretty charismatic speaker when compared to what the other main parties are offering. I'd say the only 'spoiled infants' in this case are those who see fit to brand anyone sympathising with UKIP as 'racists'.

[nevermore]

Re: Mmomaths

So basically you live in London but somehow you find it shocking that one of the world's key hubs (both historically and contemporarily) is ... multicultural?
That the city where half the world was ruled from at one point (google British Empire) is now a thriving metropolis with a mixed population?

Or that it has a high population density? (urbanisation is a funny thing eh?)

Or that morning/evening traffic jams occur, like in every other goddamn metropolis in the world?

It sounds like to me you don't really enjoy living in a city. Might try living in rural Britain... it also happens to be predominantly white, Anglican, and scarcely populated.

[Ryme]

what? be national embarrassments and act like spoiled infants? no thanks.

No no, just speak their mind and what they believe in. Like I say, I don't support UKIP, but I do support that level of self belief and confidence. Democracy will still dictate that the person with the right ideas wins.

[Deleted]

I suppose you'll be criticising Winston Churchill for being brutally honest during WW2, then? A politician being bold enough to speak his mind is pretty refreshing and he's a pretty charismatic speaker when compared to what the other main parties are offering. I'd say the only 'spoiled infants' in this case are those who see fit to brand anyone sympathising with UKIP as 'racists'.

I like straight talk. I like people who can make intelligent points and discuss actual issues, and not just spout spin like Farage does.

I dislike lying scumbags like nigel farage. He is not a charismatic speaker, he is an awful speaker, he provides no information, he is rude, he is obnoxious, he is deceitful and he is offensive.

[Deleted]

I like straight talk. I like people who can make intelligent points and discuss actual issues, and not just spout spin like Farage does.

I dislike lying scumbags like nigel farage. He is not a charismatic speaker, he is an awful speaker, he provides no information, he is rude, he is obnoxious, he is deceitful and he is offensive.

I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that Farage is not charismatic: he's a very good public speaker and engages people he's talking to. He sounds like he is enthused (or outraged) by politics unlike most other politicians.

[Deleted]

I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that Farage is not charismatic: he's a very good public speaker and engages people he's talking to. He sounds like he is enthused (or outraged) by politics unlike most other politicians.

Yet does he set an example of how a good politician should act? No, he is just as bad as the rest of them.

He has the 5th worst attendance record out of 752 MEPs
He claims £2m in expenses despite being a millionaire already