Five killed in knife attack in Israel

[Bakis]

Why the hell are you calling them Lunies?
Hamas is the democratically elected governing party in Gaza since the election in 2007. The "lunies" are their armed forces, executing the will of the people.

So is Putin I view him as a lunie as well. Both of the examples doesnt necessarily mean the people are behind them when doing their lunie stuff

[cubby]

So is Putin I view him as a lunie as well. Both of the examples doesnt necessarily mean the people are behind them when doing their lunie stuff

Speaking of Captain Obvious . . . .

[Bakis]

Speaking of Captain Obvious . . . .

He asked me a specific question I answered.
You are still not adding anything useful.

[cubby]

He asked me a specific question I answered.
You are still not adding anything useful.

I'm not sure you know what useful means. I have yet to hear any rational point or argument from you in response to anything I've said in the past two pages (or from anyone else, for that matter).

Go ahead, here's your chance. Make a useful, non-obvious statement about this situation.

[mercutiouk]

Israel is definitely stirring the hornets nest with the renewed settlements. No argument there.

Israel controls everything going in and out because they are tired of being shelled and bombed with missiles.

(I'm not going to address the U.N. thing - that is such a fucked up situation in regards to recognizing Palestine as a nation. They need to just do it, and push Hamas out of the country, and elect some leaders and finally get to the two state solution)

Ok, that's a fairly well reasoned response. You have to accept, Israel is doing itself no favours with the current policy and approach it takes to the issue. It's alienating itself internationally when it already has... less friends than it might like. Both sides are totally entrenched in their current mindsets, Israel is in a much better position to take the high ground though.

So Israel takes the high ground, HAMAS get more missles in, Israel retaliates while making loud noises about wanting a government they can talk to. Repeat a bit and you'll find the folks in Palestine will solve the hamas problem from the inside. If the choices are "leave the Israelis alone, protest in the UN about borders/etc and have free movement, food etc" or "get the crap kicked out of you repeatedly cos hamas are pissing Israel off" what do you think the folks on the ground will do?

Palestine can't back down any further, a good amount of their people are raving madmen being driven to further extremes by Israels policies, it's a negative circle-jerk that no-one benefits from. Hamas are still getting weapons into Palestine, they still launch missles, Israel still shoots a lot of them down. There's totally no loss here on the Israel side of things if they genuinely just want peace.

I'm drifting pretty close to AS viewpoints perhaps here but I don't really think Israel WANTS peace. It would be SO easy to sort if they did.

[Palemaster]

You don't attack them, no. You antagonize them constantly then play the victim card and ATTACK THEIR ENTIRE NATION when some of their number react.

Let's draw a comparison.

The US, stolen a fair amount of land from the Indians, old history now and I think most folks are pretty ok with it.
Now, lets say the US throws a fence up around each Indian territory they still have, denies them basic needs, doesn't allow them in or out without a lot of grief. Then it starts moving the fences into the reserves, bottling the remaining Indians into a smaller and smaller amount of land. Their remaining resources at this point are getting squashed further.

So a couple of the Indians get pissed off, dig under the fence and murder the first few Americans they can get their hands on. America sends in the army and demolishes 40%+ of the buildings in their territory, deliberately targets their civilians and generally beats the crap out of the whole reserve for the actions of a couple of guys (which under the circumstances....).

Who would be at fault?

This is a pretty fair analogy of the relationship between Israel and Palestine.

Obviously you left out the reason for erecting the fence, lol.

[Bakis]

I'm not sure you know what useful means. I have yet to hear any rational point or argument from you in response to anything I've said in the past two pages (or from anyone else, for that matter).

Go ahead, here's your chance. Make a useful, non-obvious statement about this situation.

Sice your last posts been aimed at nothing much but to be aimed at annoying me with the examples I already posted I think I will just call it a day and let you do whatever you do towards someone else.
Dont really see any point at going back and forth with someone hell bent on just questnioning for the sake of it.

Gn

[Palemaster]

I'm drifting pretty close to AS viewpoints perhaps here but I don't really think Israel WANTS peace. It would be SO easy to sort if they did.

We tried it in 2006 and got Terror Land. As of now from Terror Land they can only attack valuable targets (like Gen Gurion airport, the Knesset etc) with the expensive and more rare armaments. Clearing the west bank will only mean easier targets for their cheaper rockets, and access to higher population concentrations in the major cities.

Who's currently leading those people? On the one hand, the man who is responsible for the Munich massacre of 11 Israelis in 1972. On the other hand, Hamas.

[mercutiouk]

Obviously you left out the reason for erecting the fence, lol.

Ok, fair comeback. So it starts with an Indian chief somewhere deciding that the... largely agreed status quo on the whole American/Indian lands thing isn't cool, going apeshit and driving buses with explosives into American cities. Is that a fairer start?

Don't get me wrong, I get the Israel viewpoint. But that's another of the contentious base issues about it, as to who owned the land before...

I'll stick with the "status quo" point. This one again though drifts slowly towards the settlement issue...

I'm pretty happy to let good arguments win me over though. If you have dog who keeps biting you eventually muzzle it and chain it up. I see your point. I still think Israels current policy direction is pretty misguided though. You obviously can't 100% contain these people and muzzling/chaining indefinitely isn't really going to work/isn't particularly fair either.

Give it a generation or so of Israel being reasonable and things would probably improve (after quite a few pretty rough years). As it sits you're going to have them wanting to bite you forever.

[Palemaster]

But that's another of the contentious base issues about it, as to who owned the land before...

That's simple.

Before Israel, the West Bank was owned by Jordan for a very short time (when they invaded in 1967). Before that no one owned the land after the British mandate was over. In the area there were both Jewish & Arab residents (for example Jericho & Hebron were mostly settled by Jews, with some Arabs).

Before 1967, Gaza strip was owned by Egypt. It was conquered by Israel during the 6 Days War along with Sinai peninsula. Sinai was returned to Egypt due to the peace agreement, they did not want Gaza strip back.

[cubby]

Sice your last posts been aimed at nothing much but to be aimed at annoying me with the examples I already posted I think I will just call it a day and let you do whatever you do towards someone else.
Dont really see any point at going back and forth with someone hell bent on just questnioning for the sake of it.

Lol, of course you can't contribute, because that's all you do. Attack people because you have no real intellect to base arguments upon. Good luck with that!

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, that's a fairly well reasoned response. You have to accept, Israel is doing itself no favours with the current policy and approach it takes to the issue. It's alienating itself internationally when it already has... less friends than it might like. Both sides are totally entrenched in their current mindsets, Israel is in a much better position to take the high ground though.

So Israel takes the high ground, HAMAS get more missles in, Israel retaliates while making loud noises about wanting a government they can talk to. Repeat a bit and you'll find the folks in Palestine will solve the hamas problem from the inside. If the choices are "leave the Israelis alone, protest in the UN about borders/etc and have free movement, food etc" or "get the crap kicked out of you repeatedly cos hamas are pissing Israel off" what do you think the folks on the ground will do?

Palestine can't back down any further, a good amount of their people are raving madmen being driven to further extremes by Israels policies, it's a negative circle-jerk that no-one benefits from. Hamas are still getting weapons into Palestine, they still launch missles, Israel still shoots a lot of them down. There's totally no loss here on the Israel side of things if they genuinely just want peace.

I'm drifting pretty close to AS viewpoints perhaps here but I don't really think Israel WANTS peace. It would be SO easy to sort if they did.

Same for you - I like what you're saying, even if we disagree.

I agree that Palestine, without complete internal civil war, cannot back down. Israel gets caught between their internal political parties and continues with settlement development, and it's a rinse/repeat situation in which civilians die.

What needs to happen is the UN recognize Palestine (including a US "aye" vote) and then force both countries to the tables without preconditions. Wallpaper the negotiation room with pictures of the civilians deaths from both sides, and lock them in until a two-state solution is found.

[ReleaseDay]

You're on a site where people can say things like this without getting an infraction.

Not true. Would get perm'd if i'd speak out fully. But cba, i'm here to read about WoW stuff. .

[Themius]

Always amusing how a few examples nullify the actions of decades coupled with "herp derp anti-israel, anti-semites nazi(last two not you)" crap isnt it.
I will agree that it has been abused, you however want to nullify every single example of such events by IDF the past decades based on the events you listed.

Guess those 18 000 homes had hamas lunies running around too?


Here is another UN report from 2013


So yes, its not as simple as you want to to be and I can understand why my post looked like I was unaware of the examples you posted but I'm not but I apologize for that.

Speaking of the UN.

Remember that school the Israelis bombed after the UN sent message after message after message telling them not to because it was for fucking refugees, but they did it anyway. The Israelis bombed tons of areas that the UN said not to because they were safe havens for civilians, but they didn't give a shit.

[Merkava]

Not true. Would get perm'd if i'd speak out fully. But cba, i'm here to read about WoW stuff. .

You cant speak out fully without using racist slurs?

[ABEEnr2]

Speaking of the UN.

Remember that school the Israelis bombed after the UN sent message after message after message telling them not to because it was for fucking refugees, but they did it anyway. The Israelis bombed tons of areas that the UN said not to because they were safe havens for civilians, but they didn't give a shit.

Israel don't give shit anymore what the world says. As long the US is at their side then no one will talk about what they are doing and why they are killing.

[cubby]

Speaking of the UN.

Remember that school the Israelis bombed after the UN sent message after message after message telling them not to because it was for fucking refugees, but they did it anyway. The Israelis bombed tons of areas that the UN said not to because they were safe havens for civilians, but they didn't give a shit.

And why do you think the Palestinian informed UN was ignored by Israel? You think Israel just likes killing civilians?

- - - Updated - - -

Israel don't give shit anymore what the world says. As long the US is at their side then no one will talk about what they are doing and why they are killing.

That's right, they don't. Because everyone sides with the terrorists vis a vis Hamas and ignores the decades of terror Israel has lived in. But you go right ahead an ignore reality.

[user531345]

Hamas is really dumb, if they didnt fire rockets, kidnap people, and support these kinds of actions, the palestinian people could gain more international support/sympathy, i think the way israel treats the palestinians is wrong, but when you have a group like hamas thats ideology calls for the destruction of israel and continues acts of agressions, it causes people to forget about the humanitarian crises, and it makes it impossible to get anything meaningful done.

[Themius]

And why do you think the Palestinian informed UN was ignored by Israel? You think Israel just likes killing civilians?

- - - Updated - - -



That's right, they don't. Because everyone sides with the terrorists vis a vis Hamas and ignores the decades of terror Israel has lived in. But you go right ahead an ignore reality.

You do realize that Israel killed UN workers right?

- - - Updated - - -

Hamas is really dumb, if they didnt fire rockets, kidnap people, and support these kinds of actions, the palestinian people could gain more international support/sympathy, i think the way israel treats the palestinians is wrong, but when you have a group like hamas thats ideology calls for the destruction of israel and continues acts of agressions, it causes people to forget about the humanitarian crises, and it makes it impossible to get anything meaningful done.

Group like Hamas sure, but they're not the entire country. Nor are they in a position to oppress Israelis like the Palestinians are.

[ABEEnr2]

And why do you think the Palestinian informed UN was ignored by Israel? You think Israel just likes killing civilians?

- - - Updated - - -



That's right, they don't. Because everyone sides with the terrorists vis a vis Hamas and ignores the decades of terror Israel has lived in. But you go right ahead an ignore reality.

After seeing what the israel are doing and what they are trying to do the only thing i can see to them is that they are the real terrorists of this world.