Anyone else having Resto Problems?

[Nythiz]

Nythiz, HST doesn't do a significant ammount of healing because it's great but mostly because it's one of our few heals that "always work". The WoD CM/Dungeon environment is if anything far more movement heavy than I've ever seen before (one of the reasons why the whole "stand still to cast doesn't work for most DPS casters, GJ Blizzard making a game were your design philosophy doesn't fit). Thus because healing rain usually often lies around half useless because the DPS/Tank were forced to move on sometimes during it's duration and because most of our other heals are hard casts HST's percentage of healing get's "inflated" in a sense.

As a resto sure as hell I drop it on CD, it's not all that great anymore. It's just that most of our other stuff is also kinda meh, especially those with long and slow casts. I already can see healing wave pretty much being neglected once we have enough spirit to just cast healing surge instead all the time, because it's both slow and inefficient. Similar to how druids barely use healing touch already.

I really wish all their teams would follow one design philosophy instead of being all over the place.

Agreed. Difference is that most other healers seem (because I honestly haven't played them much in WoD yet) to have more/better tools to manage with the mobility issue. Sure, a lot of instants got a cast time now. But 1.5 second cast times are really affordable in the high mobility environment of WoD. 2.5 second casts on the other hand, are not.

I think it looks OK just because it's five man content -- when picking two injured people out of five, it can't be that wrong even while being random.
In raids it'll be different, since it picks two out of twenty, which has a significantly higher chance picking someone who doesn't need it.

Of course it looks better in 5 man content. However it's still worth dropping in 20 man raids as well. Granted it's RNG targetting makes it horrible for getting the heals where they are going to be most effective; however that doesn't make the ability bad.
Even someone on 95% is eventually going to need that healing (because he'll eventually get hit by another one of those big AoE hits that seem to go around on most fights), so whether you need to pick him up for 10% later, or from 20% later because the totem got him back to 100% does make a difference in the overall picture.

HST still does next to no overhealing, which makes it one of our most efficient heals HPS/HPM wise. And with this new healing model that actually accounts for something, as there is much less blanket healing and overhealing going around.
That said, the RNG factor on the totem still pisses me off at times as well.

One thing I did notice was that AG is very strong right now. AG with ascendance and HT will outheal just about everyone. But it is like the glass cannon healing. Outside of those bursts, we are lacking. And we fall way behind. Now, sure, I can say 'hey, my numbers are great' when they include my cooldown usage which greatly inflate it during the high damage periods on a fight. But is that representative of the whole fight? What happens outside of those high burst healing moments?

I'm not so sure about AG. Saying it's solid when you combine it with another (long) cooldown is kind of a reflection to the whole state of resto shamans as a whole. When you need to pop 2-3 cooldowns at once to get something done, it doesn't really make me feel excited.
Also in your examples, I'm doubting how much of the strength comes from AG and not simply from Ascendance. Because in my eyes Ascandance is the only really strong cooldown we have left. (Although HTT isn't bad in raids).

I think time will tell how our healing fares. My guess is that we'll be on the weaker side, but that monks are first in line for a buff. Meaning we'll have to make due with some bandaid fixes for a long time until they come up with some idea's that push us to the brink of OP again. (Ergo: Doing what they have done every expansion so far)

[fokka]

I dont understand to be honest.. If u cant heal HC as a shaman theres 2 reasons. First is that ur group is totally and utter shit, standing in stuff, tanks not mooving boss and so on and second is that u are shit.. Shamans can heal HC with no problems if played correctly. CM is same but much harder. If u have a bad tank u will not make it, if u have bad dps u wont make it and if you are bad u will get kicked.. In some situations the other classes are waaay better then us at healing and it really sux that we are this weak now, but lets see what happenes when we all have 660+ gear. Im just w8ing for raids to see if there REALLY is a problem.. ANd to be honest.. Numbers, numbers and numbers.. If u havent wiped yet why are u even speaking if numbers? Just let it go until raids are open and if we are that much lowe in healing than the other healers that we will get replaced every time, then thats the time to yapping

And this post is IMHO

[Deleted]

Agreed. Difference is that most other healers seem (because I honestly haven't played them much in WoD yet) to have more/better tools to manage with the mobility issue. Sure, a lot of instants got a cast time now. But 1.5 second cast times are really affordable in the high mobility environment of WoD. 2.5 second casts on the other hand, are not.

That's actually the issue I see with Shamans on large, they told people they wanted both casters and healers to stand still and cast more instead of spamming instants, relying on smart heals or casting on the run. Then somehow only implimented those changes for some classes while additionally creating an environment where the "stand still and cast for more than one very short cast" type of play doesn't work.
As for druids, the currently best healers by a far shot. They have zero issues with movement whatsoever. They also hardly if ever use abilities like healing touch. Just look at their main heals, rejuvenation is instand and if skilled can be applied twice to a target, lifebloom is also instant and doesn't need to be stacked anymore, wild growth has a very short cast time and so does regrowth while not substantially healing less than the shaman heals. If one wants to make a direct comparison, take mushroom and healing rain. Mushroom is instant, has no CD and stays for 30 second while not doing less healing than healing rain.

It really feels as if they had completely different teams working on the different classes and some of them weren't updated on all the changes they introduced for WoD.

[Menubrea]

That's actually the issue I see with Shamans on large, they told people they wanted both casters and healers to stand still and cast more instead of spamming instants, relying on smart heals or casting on the run. Then somehow only implimented those changes for some classes while additionally creating an environment where the "stand still and cast for more than one very short cast" type of play doesn't work.
As for druids, the currently best healers by a far shot. They have zero issues with movement whatsoever. They also hardly if ever use abilities like healing touch. Just look at their main heals, rejuvenation is instand and if skilled can be applied twice to a target, lifebloom is also instant and doesn't need to be stacked anymore, wild growth has a very short cast time and so does regrowth while not substantially healing less than the shaman heals. If one wants to make a direct comparison, take mushroom and healing rain. Mushroom is instant, has no CD and stays for 30 second while not doing less healing than healing rain.

It really feels as if they had completely different teams working on the different classes and some of them weren't updated on all the changes they introduced for WoD.

I've been following this thread and just thought I'd chime in with some of my own experiences since you seem so eager to make comparisons with Druids.

First off I agree with you in regards the the comparison between Wild Mushroom and Healing Rain, Wild Mushroom is just straight up better in every regard. That being said, for much of the content so far in this expansion there's been too much movement to make effective use of it. Anyways, Healing Rain should either be buffed, or Wild Mushrooms should be toned down to match Healing Rain.

At item level 630 my Rejuvs heal for roughly 1k HPS, so at the cost of 2 GCD's I get about 36k healing single target over 18 seconds. Our only other reliable source of AoE healing is Wild Growth, which my tooltip reads 13k over 7 seconds. There's also Genesis, which serves as a band-aid for Druids terrible AoE burst heal potential, but with current haste levels it's usage is very niche. Contrary to popular belief our AoE healing is kinda underwhelming compared to several other classes. Our healing cool-downs doesn't help to alleviate this issue either, they just make us better at what we're already best at; providing a steady stream of healing to multiple targets at a time.

I'm not saying Druids are poor by any means, I think they're very much in a good spot, but just like the other healing classes they have weaknesses and strengths too; some of which that become very obvious during certain CM encounters.

[madmanx]

Good news, you can't outheal stupid anymore but...you can let it die.

Every single dps spec has either the ability to self heal of to greatly reduce nearly all (if not all) incoming damage. Even the dumbest hunter will get the picture after 30 - 40 deaths.

[L3fty]

We feel *ok* right now. It does feel like in some heavy aoe situations we struggle, but hopefully as our mastery stats increase we can enjoy some progress on this front.

I was a little sad to see most CM groups looking solely for Resto Druids tonight. My ilvl or exp did not come into the equation, most groups just wanted Resto Druids full stop. I do wonder with the amount of abilities that require movement to dodge just how we will compete.

In terms of the OP:

620 is always going to be hard work. Also, never underestimate the power of your dps to mitigate dmg. The difference between doing it in an organized guild group to a PuG is huge. This isn't groundbreaking, but after a crap run I sometimes have to remind myself how much less stupid spike dmg there would have been if it was with guildies.

Happy healing.

[Psykewne]

I did the Skyreach Challenge mode today. It took 1hr 40 mins or so. One thing I noticed is the sheer limitations of our healing kit (not sure how it fairs vs other healers as I haven't played them but I believe it might be similar in many respects). Our success in many fights is much more down to the performance of our team mates. Tanks need to fully utilise their tools to mitigate and heal damage so that we are free to worry about the unavoidable damage on the group. We need dps to not stand in the bad or our mana gets used up quickly. You have to enter the intensive fights with a plan and utilise your cooldowns effectively to handle the mechanics.

We have a good quantity of cooldowns that we can utilise for throughput to handle intensive phases which I believe will be a great niche for us, however the sustainability of any healing we do is severely limited so intense fights will require alot of dps to ensure they go down in a reasonable amount of time.

I am reminded of original TBC heroics with some of the strain in challenge modes. Good use of CC is needed to handle hard trash packs and at the end of the day you should not feel shamed for not being able to/wanting to heal in subpar situations when your team could make it easier. This means tanks that pull multiple packs or dps that refuse to cc should be punted to the curb as the team now lives and dies by utilising their full toolkit to the best advantage in each encounter.

My biggest criticism of our kit seems to be the same as our dps specs where the numbers simply seem lower than other classes. None of our heals feel like they have any punch.

[Hizzy]

Hey all, just wanna throw my 2 cents in here. I quit 3 years ago and come back a week before WoD. From then until now I have had NO ISSUES healing as a resto shaman.

I know you read that last line and squinted your eyes and said "bullshit". Well, it's true. Am I going through mana? Yes, I'm drinking every 3 trash packs and before and after every boss almost. Are people taking lots of damage? Yes, but you gotta know what heals to use at what time. Like so many other people have said, don't waste mana on someone at 95% they will survive 1 or 2 more hits.

Almost every boss fight and even some trash fights now need people to pay attention to the screen. Move your hotkeys under your feet and make those timers as big as you can, cause you're gonna need to look around every so often and pay attention to those timers now. DBM is screaming at me all day about how I'm gonna die or some sexy chick counting down from 5. PAY ATTENTION cause shit is about to get real son.

Addon: Vuhdo
Single Rotation: Riptide, HW, HW
OHSHITTHETANKISGOINGTODIE: Riptide, UL, HS, HS
Light AoE dmg: HR, HST, CH, HW, HW
Heavy AoE dmg: HR, HTT, HST, CH, HW, HW

That's pretty much how I heal and I barely have issues. I keep riptide up on the tank and as many other people as I can. I use Ascendance when needed for AoE healing and since I'm a troll I have berserking to throw into my cooldowns or to stack with bloodlust. I'm not a fan of spirit link totem but I use it at tank heavy damage times to help with that. Don't use spirit link during AoE damage, it doesn't help one bit in my experience.

I don't really know what else to say other than I am lazy and didn't read any of the 4 pages of responses. Just the OP and maybe 3 posts after lol

[Deleted]

I did the Skyreach Challenge mode today. It took 1hr 40 mins or so. One thing I noticed is the sheer limitations of our healing kit (not sure how it fairs vs other healers as I haven't played them but I believe it might be similar in many respects). Our success in many fights is much more down to the performance of our team mates. Tanks need to fully utilise their tools to mitigate and heal damage so that we are free to worry about the unavoidable damage on the group. We need dps to not stand in the bad or our mana gets used up quickly. You have to enter the intensive fights with a plan and utilise your cooldowns effectively to handle the mechanics.

We have a good quantity of cooldowns that we can utilise for throughput to handle intensive phases which I believe will be a great niche for us, however the sustainability of any healing we do is severely limited so intense fights will require alot of dps to ensure they go down in a reasonable amount of time.

I am reminded of original TBC heroics with some of the strain in challenge modes. Good use of CC is needed to handle hard trash packs and at the end of the day you should not feel shamed for not being able to/wanting to heal in subpar situations when your team could make it easier. This means tanks that pull multiple packs or dps that refuse to cc should be punted to the curb as the team now lives and dies by utilising their full toolkit to the best advantage in each encounter.

My biggest criticism of our kit seems to be the same as our dps specs where the numbers simply seem lower than other classes. None of our heals feel like they have any punch.

OK you can't just show up and say 'the tank has to do his best and the dps has to do his best and only than we can do it' :\ The rest of the team doing his best goes without saying that is their job the difference is that with some classes you can afford for them to not do their best and minor errors and still clear the instance.

My experience is this i have tried the same instance today on challenge mode no problems until the second boss that part was totally unhealable and unreasonable. Our party was formed from Prot pala 2x warlocks and 1xdk. I guess the issue could have been with the party itself but if i have to get ideal party every single time i go for challenge mode than it kind of defeats the purpose for the challenge modes to be there in a first place. I shouldn't have to pick up 3xhunters 1xdk tank and 1xresto druid to do shit i should be able to do it with whatever combo of characters but lets leave that aside... the issue on that boss fight for me was as it follows:
3 beams of lazer each hitting 1 player for 20 k per second for 6-7 seconds? and the tank taking dmg from the boss meanwhile.While this `phase` is taking place the ppl are spread out and neither chain heal neither healing rain is an option even if it is its hardly going to heal them up considering the amount of dmg they are taking we are easly talking about 70 k per second here plus a huge aoe after the phase is done. This is simply not doable with Healing wave which i cast for 1.67 seconds and that heals for 26 k hp with 8% crit chance. You can use cds but considering how long the boss fight lasts you are just running out of cds in the middle of the fight.
Out healing this with the toolkit we have is a no go i won't even bother trying doing any type of Challenge modes at this point because its just not happening. I can make it work but considering the amount of effort me and the other members of the group have to put in order to make it work compared to priest/druid/paladin healer is just ridiculous.

This issue where ppl are spreading and we don't have healing spells in place to keep them up has been up since for ever and its one of the many proofs how incompetent blizzard are at fixing the issues at our class.
Also as a main elemental try and guess the success chance of me finding a group for CM...? Yeah i even had ppl leaving the group when i tried to make one because i am going as elemental i literally have to jump over 1000 hoops in order to be able to do content at this point and i don't expect things to get any easier

- - - Updated - - -

Hey all, just wanna throw my 2 cents in here. I quit 3 years ago and come back a week before WoD. From then until now I have had NO ISSUES healing as a resto shaman.

I know you read that last line and squinted your eyes and said "bullshit". Well, it's true. Am I going through mana? Yes, I'm drinking every 3 trash packs and before and after every boss almost. Are people taking lots of damage? Yes, but you gotta know what heals to use at what time. Like so many other people have said, don't waste mana on someone at 95% they will survive 1 or 2 more hits.

Almost every boss fight and even some trash fights now need people to pay attention to the screen. Move your hotkeys under your feet and make those timers as big as you can, cause you're gonna need to look around every so often and pay attention to those timers now. DBM is screaming at me all day about how I'm gonna die or some sexy chick counting down from 5. PAY ATTENTION cause shit is about to get real son.

Addon: Vuhdo
Single Rotation: Riptide, HW, HW
OHSHITTHETANKISGOINGTODIE: Riptide, UL, HS, HS
Light AoE dmg: HR, HST, CH, HW, HW
Heavy AoE dmg: HR, HTT, HST, CH, HW, HW

That's pretty much how I heal and I barely have issues. I keep riptide up on the tank and as many other people as I can. I use Ascendance when needed for AoE healing and since I'm a troll I have berserking to throw into my cooldowns or to stack with bloodlust. I'm not a fan of spirit link totem but I use it at tank heavy damage times to help with that. Don't use spirit link during AoE damage, it doesn't help one bit in my experience.

I don't really know what else to say other than I am lazy and didn't read any of the 4 pages of responses. Just the OP and maybe 3 posts after lol

Are you talking about heroic modes here or challenge modes... because heroic dungeons are piss easy unless you do something really stupid like pulling 3 packs+ if you have no issues in challenge modes than i have to say that either you are a perfect player and you play with similar skilled ppl OR you are talking bs :| no offense intended its just very hard to believe there are ppl with no issues when it comes to healing in challenge modes

[Gardiff]

I will only talk about gold challenge mode that is almost done for me - shadowmoon burial grounds. We were at 5 minutes at the jormungar boss but our rogue died somewhere early past mobs we skipped (tiny spiderlings) and stealth doesn't work (and invis pot on cd) so we had to reset for the final attempt and just figured we will get it next weekend or something.

Overall SBG is a very easy instance as resto. Obviously since going for gold, no cc or anything. Stuns coordinated yes but not always used due to 6 mobs landing a melee attack can spell death for a tank.

Breakdown of the instance is insanely easy until boss 1. Boss 1 no issues if you stay stacked. The pulls after boss 1 (6 mob pulls which if you interrupt they start channeling this awful ability basically on CD but if you don't interrupt them they channel the 3 adds there for 100% damage increase) is a tough one and I really wish we had a tank cooldown for it. Running into melee and dropping SLT is not really feasible and I am apalled that they did not fix the totemic projection bug with spirit link - YOU CANNOT PROJECT SLT ANYWHERE BECAUSE the delay it has when projecting makes it such that it is only active for the final second of the projection. I have posted before numerous times about this bug on the official forums and still no response. Such a joke that we can't even use our "tank" cd effectively without being right next to the tank.

To those who say it doesn't exist and are solely looking at the animation on screen, run logs and prove it for yourself. Or I will link one of my logs set to show.

Anyhow boss 2 is easy. Trash after boss 2 - another 6 pack. Same thing.

And now the bats + spider. Dear god the tank damage does not stop. Its not that bad but it is incredibly irritating we cannot dispel this disease.

Then the double spider pull at the bottom - we invis'd here so no comment. 2 jormungars + 4 bats is pretty easy except again, the disease is insane.

3rd boss easy. Stealth past 4 mobs after. double void spawns not an issue. Nor is the final boss.

That is my take on shadowmoon at least. Doable but the SLT bug infuriates me to this day since its been known since projection became a talent.

Not commenting on just completeing cmodes for the daily since... that is pretty easy.

Comp was rogue, BM hunter, frost mage, prot warrior.

[Deleted]

Were still good if you can stack. Very bad spread, even worse than before due do HST nerf. And movement kills us if you dont use riptide glyph, but they also nerfed the HoT in Riptide so were even worse in that too now.

[TenDance]

The issue is not if "we're good" or not. You can always talk about classmechanics and if they have some edges, ultimately, what most shamans - regardless the specc, as sad as it is - are complaining about that with similar gear almost all other classes are superior in numbers.

So we've seen a lot talk about Skyreach CM due to the daily. Skyreach isn't that hard if you don't aim for gold. If you take your time, just CC the trash - nothing really difficult for anyone still sane in his mind. If you aim for gold and you really want to maximize group-DPS, polymorphs, fears etc might be in the way so stuff changes, but that's a different story. Still, grounding, interrupts, purges, roots&snares as well as windwalk come in handy.

But when stuff hits the fan, you take a healer with you to heal people. If this wouldn't be necessary, take a DPS. Dead things won't do you any harm. And that's where numbers come into play. I created some kind of random group just to get the daily quest done and people haven't been top notch, but "good" or "ok" players. Still maanged to get gold in Pandaria. Okay, the tank had been really really bad and I had almost tell him each button which he should use, where he should stand, walk, breathe... kind of annoying.
But, the point is: during the second boss I had one hell of a time to keep people high enoug after they soaked the streams to survive the blast. Given the fact that I'm slightly above 620 and gear is not that optimized, you would say "it's okay, your gear is just bad". But no, it's not. I finished with 30k HPS and running on fumes, but later on i talked with a priest and he said he had an easy time, finishing with 40k HPS. And THAT is where I start to complain. If an other class is 30% better - which can't be solely explained by gear, not by this margin - things are imbalanced.

The same picture when you look at DPS. Your fingers keep flying over your keyboard, exercising the hardest dance of buttonpressing you could imagine - and still, there are DPS which do 30% better than you and could easily afford to make a pizza at the same time. Not to heat one up, to CREATE one.

I don't care which class is fine. It doesn't matter. I just say classes have to be roughly equal, AT LEAST only differentiated by 10% in throughput. The aim shoudl be to get all classes for a job in a margin of 5% to each other.
If resto is fine, I'm okay with it. But then bring those other classes down to "being fine".

[Hydró-UK]

The issue is not if "we're good" or not. You can always talk about classmechanics and if they have some edges, ultimately, what most shamans - regardless the specc, as sad as it is - are complaining about that with similar gear almost all other classes are superior in numbers.

So we've seen a lot talk about Skyreach CM due to the daily. Skyreach isn't that hard if you don't aim for gold. If you take your time, just CC the trash - nothing really difficult for anyone still sane in his mind. If you aim for gold and you really want to maximize group-DPS, polymorphs, fears etc might be in the way so stuff changes, but that's a different story. Still, grounding, interrupts, purges, roots&snares as well as windwalk come in handy.

But when stuff hits the fan, you take a healer with you to heal people. If this wouldn't be necessary, take a DPS. Dead things won't do you any harm. And that's where numbers come into play. I created some kind of random group just to get the daily quest done and people haven't been top notch, but "good" or "ok" players. Still maanged to get gold in Pandaria. Okay, the tank had been really really bad and I had almost tell him each button which he should use, where he should stand, walk, breathe... kind of annoying.
But, the point is: during the second boss I had one hell of a time to keep people high enoug after they soaked the streams to survive the blast. Given the fact that I'm slightly above 620 and gear is not that optimized, you would say "it's okay, your gear is just bad". But no, it's not. I finished with 30k HPS and running on fumes, but later on i talked with a priest and he said he had an easy time, finishing with 40k HPS. And THAT is where I start to complain. If an other class is 30% better - which can't be solely explained by gear, not by this margin - things are imbalanced.

The same picture when you look at DPS. Your fingers keep flying over your keyboard, exercising the hardest dance of buttonpressing you could imagine - and still, there are DPS which do 30% better than you and could easily afford to make a pizza at the same time. Not to heat one up, to CREATE one.

I don't care which class is fine. It doesn't matter. I just say classes have to be roughly equal, AT LEAST only differentiated by 10% in throughput. The aim shoudl be to get all classes for a job in a margin of 5% to each other.
If resto is fine, I'm okay with it. But then bring those other classes down to "being fine".

I've done the second boss a few times, I can say for sure that 30k HPS is right on the limit of being enough, I've managed upwards of 45k using cooldowns correctly and healing the targets that need it the most(no items under 630). You cant just simply compare numbers with someone in 2 totally different groups. So many posts in this thread complain about ''other healer's numbers'' but there are no raids yet or many appropriate situations where we can compare whilst healing alongside eachother. Personal CD's, group gear levels, skill etc all create too much variance when asking friends or other classes how they get on. Your friend saying he had an easy time is just bullshitting trying to make himself look good, I've dps'd the fight with a druid and priest healer and wiped.

If you seriously think other healers are 30%+ better than us just have a look at your realm best and even world best CM times at the moment. There's tonnes of resto shamans, think about that for a minute.

[Deleted]

Hydro, actually since they haven't changed anything from Beta we can take the test raids from there as a good indicator. We're performing "Okayish" at best, we're lagging behind druids and priest by a large margin and paladins by quite a bit. The only healer we flat out beat are Mistweavers which are in desperate need of some changes.

Saying that people shouldn't complain about other healers numbers, which they very much should. It's not just healing throughput but also the way they can actually deliver it. Especially druids are beyond ridiculous at the moment. Shaman suffers from movement in all three speccs, a lot. WoD dungeons are extremly movement heavy, far more so than any dungeons ever before.

Saying we can't compare CMs is also false, we don't have to be in the same group to see which healer gets a group through those CMs especially when going for gold. People are going to gravitate towards those, because it's safe, easier and less frustrating for the group. Which means that some classes will have problems finding groups when people actually want to beat gold times. This has already been the case in MoP where melees were only really welcome as tanks and some classes were almost never brought.

So if you want a decent way to see where the wind is blowing from, take a look at the very top. Pretty much all of the druids in those groups currently are druids and for good reasons. Shamans, not so much.

[Pur1tas]

So I have been to several CMs and there are a lot of things that I realized.

1. Never ever try healing a leather tank. Its a pain in the ass ... I could spam HS into the monk tank and nothing would happen. I could barely hold him at his current hp and the only chance to get him up in hp is a multistrike proc (not even crits really help).

2. Healing tide is a complete waste of mana in 5 man groups. The healing done is little that even if they take no dmg they will not be full (if they were at lik 30% when HTT dropped)

3. Ascendance seems really weak overall in comparisson to MoP. I feel like even if I spam chainheal or have a healing rain down while using it there is no way I am going to get the group topped during its duration

4. Spirit Link is still a very good tool and with Ascendance you can actually get a group back to top.

5. Overall healing seems to be very very mana intensive and little. A 2 second Healing wave barely heals anything and there is no other way than spamming HS if targets actually drop (ie. Nerzuhl, Skyreach 1st boss, Depot 1st boss, etc.)

So I realized those things during 5 man HCs and CMs but I have to say I felt very strong during the MC LFR cause all our cds really heal for a lot there. 40 man Healing tide kicks ass .... at least in the meters.

So yesterday we did Skyreach CM and the actualy plan was for me to be Elemental and our Paladin to heal but after the first boss we switched cause he didnt manage to heal the second one. I think most healers feel very weak at the moment (maybe except druids) as those bossfights do not seem suited for the low amount of mana reg we have and we lack on haste and crit a lot most of the time in order to react better to incomming dmg.

I think we might be a little undertuned but I feel like there is great potential in resto healing with increasing gear. I only use 4 out of 6 Items with spirit at the moment because I didnt get any the other two yet and I do not feel like I need them or could afford giving away haste, crit or multistrike for that spirit. So I think it is supposed to be hard at this point in time and i realized a very good scaling with items for the resto.

I am at 536 GS now only wearing a belt below 630 (fucking 60x shit from questing -.-) and with every item I get healing gets easier. I think the main problem of why healing seems so hard with resto atm is that a lot of people don't use their def CDs at the right point, get avoidable dmg and the fact that leather tanks a really undertuned considering dmg taken. I cannot see our monk surviving Raid bosses with the amount of dmg he is taking at the moment.

Aditionally I am still testing out the different level 100 talents as I do not really feel like the totem is that good or usefull at all in HCs or CMs, it might be very strong in Raids though. I also think the whole healing is more of a teamwork thing now as I see our Paladin really struggeling in fights like 2nd boss Skyreach where 3 people and the tank get constant high dmg.

[Hydró-UK]

I also dont think comparing beta raids is a good indicator. If those raids were all high class, elite guilds then that would be pretty irrelevant as that's cutting edge raiding where a minute percentage of people would ever be. People are also playing with the attitude and style of the previous expansion (current at the time). As more is seen and adapted to, also certain gear and stats priotized alot of things can change.

Sure they should complain if numbers are consistently screwed, but apart from some beta test raiding does anyone have legit numbers from a large enough pool with equal enough settings? Highly doubt it.

Ok so we are less mobile than a druid? Sure, always have been. As are paladins, monks and for the most part priests, each healer has certain strengths and weaknesses and movement has rarely been much of an issue so far anyway. That doesnt mean were immediately worse. What we offer is:

- huge heals on lower hp targets than can be buffed more than any other class with talented UL. (not just on tanks but to spot heal dps)
- High (if not the highest) number of raid cooldowns that produce massive amounts of these 'numbers' everyone bangs on about and actually prove to be more useful than others at saving lives.
- spammable but admittedly small HoT that pretty much gives us huge haste and crit on certain heals.


Comparing CM's - Yeah of course you compare what healers can get groups through, just because you cant as a shaman doesnt mean others cant. If you look at those leaderboards you'll see alot of shamans and let me tell you alot may not be in Resto spec when you look now but they werent brought for the DPS spec thats for sure. I've also seen realm times with Resto shamans so I just think alot of these comparisons and complaining is not from the majority and just needs time to adapt and practise. I'm by far claiming I'm some elite pro healer but have been able to PuG and premade group challenge modes, not being miles away from gold.

[Pur1tas]

- huge heals on lower hp targets than can be buffed more than any other class with talented UL. (not just on tanks but to spot heal dps)
- High (if not the highest) number of raid cooldowns that produce massive amounts of these 'numbers' everyone bangs on about and actually prove to be more useful than others at saving lives.
- spammable but admittedly small HoT that pretty much gives us huge haste and crit on certain heals.

I have to say I disagree with these. I think "Huge" is not the correct word for our heals no matter at what health out target is. It is not possible to keep most tanks at their current health level with healing wave, and for leather tanks you cannot even afford to waste a GCD on a riptide between HS. So "Huge" is for sure wrong and I do not expect us to be great single target healers for at least the upcomming raidcontent

We do have a high ammount of Raid cooldowns and I think they will be good in raids of 20 or more people (so Mythic and flex with 20+ groups) but they are no good spells for smaller groups as they just do not heal with amount of healing done but with the amount of targets it hits

For riptide glyph I have to say there is no way you can use that in 5 man groups and I strongly doubt you can in raids. I quit using it with the MOP 6.0 patch because it just cost to much mana to spam it and is not really that effective with the Chainheal being just stupid now jumping to whatever target it feels like resulting in 90% overhealing.

[Deleted]

Comparing CM's - Yeah of course you compare what healers can get groups through, just because you cant as a shaman doesnt mean others cant. If you look at those leaderboards you'll see alot of shamans and let me tell you alot may not be in Resto spec when you look now but they werent brought for the DPS spec thats for sure. I've also seen realm times with Resto shamans so I just think alot of these comparisons and complaining is not from the majority and just needs time to adapt and practise. I'm by far claiming I'm some elite pro healer but have been able to PuG and premade group challenge modes, not being miles away from gold.

I like the "lol u just bad", I've done MoP CM Gold as resto shaman with little to no issue most of them first try and went to wave 48~ in proving grounds which put me squarely at rank 7 as healer and rank 1 as resto shaman at that time which was a few months before MoP ended. So I very much doubt the problem here is me.

You're claiming that you see loads of resto shamans having done gold ratings, I call that a lie. Sure there's some but even then in many cases they've been carried by their group. This isn't just some "baddies" being unhappy about how shaman currently compare, it's actually the stark opposite. It's people being worried about how we currently compete when it comes to higher ratings in PvP, decent times in CMs i.e gold+ and in an raiding environment.

[Lothrik]

I have to say I disagree with these. I think "Huge" is not the correct word for our heals no matter at what health out target is. It is not possible to keep most tanks at their current health level with healing wave, and for leather tanks you cannot even afford to waste a GCD on a riptide between HS. So "Huge" is for sure wrong and I do not expect us to be great single target healers for at least the upcomming raidcontent

We do have a high ammount of Raid cooldowns and I think they will be good in raids of 20 or more people (so Mythic and flex with 20+ groups) but they are no good spells for smaller groups as they just do not heal with amount of healing done but with the amount of targets it hits

For riptide glyph I have to say there is no way you can use that in 5 man groups and I strongly doubt you can in raids. I quit using it with the MOP 6.0 patch because it just cost to much mana to spam it and is not really that effective with the Chainheal being just stupid now jumping to whatever target it feels like resulting in 90% overhealing.

Riptide glyph works just fine with Elemental Blast. I can sustain riptide on 5 targets while alternating healing surge and chain heal pretty much forever. The only real downside is your tank burst healing kind of sucks without UF. As I've said before, Blizzard really needs to give us a proper tank cooldown. The big advantage I've found to using the riptide glyph is it gives you something to do during low-damage points *and* while moving, which helps you prepare for the high-damage points quite nicely via High Tide and Tidal Waves.

Also, if you really don't think Resto Shamans can put out huge single target heals, I suspect you've probably never seriously used UF. Put Earth Shield up (+20%), Riptide (+30% crit on next 2 HS), Unleash Life (+95% to the next single target heal with UF, it's a multiplier). With Echo of the Elements you can quite literally heal a tank from dead to full in a single crit Healing Surge on a regular basis. I see 200K+ tank crits all the time with UF.

If you really think you can't afford a riptide between healing surges, the tank is already dead and you're wasting your time.

[Hydró-UK]

I have to say I disagree with these. I think "Huge" is not the correct word for our heals no matter at what health out target is. It is not possible to keep most tanks at their current health level with healing wave, and for leather tanks you cannot even afford to waste a GCD on a riptide between HS. So "Huge" is for sure wrong and I do not expect us to be great single target healers for at least the upcomming raidcontent

We do have a high ammount of Raid cooldowns and I think they will be good in raids of 20 or more people (so Mythic and flex with 20+ groups) but they are no good spells for smaller groups as they just do not heal with amount of healing done but with the amount of targets it hits

For riptide glyph I have to say there is no way you can use that in 5 man groups and I strongly doubt you can in raids. I quit using it with the MOP 6.0 patch because it just cost to much mana to spam it and is not really that effective with the Chainheal being just stupid now jumping to whatever target it feels like resulting in 90% overhealing.

Compared to other healers our heals are actually very big. I've seen 150-185k healing waves with unleash life talented and a ~1k versatility trinket use effect. Granted that wont be every heal but it's rare a tank will be wrecked to 20~% every GCD. I dont know if you and the tanks you've been playing with are wildly undergeared but even in CM's its barely 10% of packs or fights where I think the tank could die any second. Riptiding is a must on every CD if youre not glyphed or every time tidal waves drops if not more glyphed (i run glyphed).

It doesnt really matter that our cooldowns heal more people in mythic compared to CM's they dont heal people for more. If you're whole group is <30% a HTT and Ag or Ascendance combo always brings everyone to near full life where you can continue healing the tank. I dont really understand how you think they are 'no good spells' when they literally blow most other healing CD's out the water.

Riptide glyph is very viable, I'd even recommend it. The thing is you say 90% overhealing but werent you saying everyone is always low? Surely this makes multiple riptides up and chain heal alot more powerful? Not having to make sure someone is riptide'd before chain healing because its on everyone is so useful I cant even begin to explain. Especially with High Tide not reducing power each jump.

- - - Updated - - -

I like the "lol u just bad", I've done MoP CM Gold as resto shaman with little to no issue most of them first try and went to wave 48~ in proving grounds which put me squarely at rank 7 as healer and rank 1 as resto shaman at that time which was a few months before MoP ended. So I very much doubt the problem here is me.

You're claiming that you see loads of resto shamans having done gold ratings, I call that a lie. Sure there's some but even then in many cases they've been carried by their group. This isn't just some "baddies" being unhappy about how shaman currently compare, it's actually the stark opposite. It's people being worried about how we currently compete when it comes to higher ratings in PvP, decent times in CMs i.e gold+ and in an raiding environment.

I didnt insinuate that you were bad at all or that anyone is a 'baddie'. It just seems from the similarity of yours and others' posts that there's still a large amount of MoP attitude towards healing and people arent adapting to having mutiple dps not topped up and tanks needing to be focused alot more.

Call it a lie all you like, you can check leaderboards and there's more than a few on there. Saying they were carried by their groups with no information or basis just kinda proves you cant be reasoned with and have beef with the certain style of healing shamans bring and have to adapt to...

PvP I have no idea, nor much care about so you could be right there. CM gold has been done by many a resto shaman as I said before and you can check to confirm that. Raiding hasnt been released yet so yeah....