8/8 Gold Restoration combat log

[Hildrande]

Take a look at these combat logs. - he's 8/8 gold, four of them best EU. The log is for 6 runs. Here's the healing distribution:

Regrowth       23.17%
Rejuvenation   14.96%
Lifebloom      11.06%
Living Seed    10.11%
Germination    9.57%
Wild Growth    9.35%
Cenarion Ward  6.13%
Swiftmend      5.38%
Nature's Vigil 4.25%
Wild Mushroom  4.23%
Tranquility    1.14%
Lifebloom      0.34%
Healing Touch  0.04%

Apparently glyphed Regrowth and its living seed has tremendous potential. Cenarion Ward heals for a larger amount than Ysera's gift in my logs, and you get a targeted potentially life-saving heal. Tranquility is barely used, and even more suprisingly, Wild Mushroom, which is my bread and butter, is unimportant with the playstyle above. That might be due to tempo requirements.

And: In the above log all the healing over time spells have significantly more overhealing than the static heals. Living Seed has 4.12% overheal, Wild Growth 32% overheal, Rejuvenation 17.3% overheal.

/Discuss.

[nightfalls]

Having done some CM's (not really pushing golds yet) myself, I'm honestly not that surprised. I read your earlier posts promoting Regrowth and LS builds (@OP) and I must say in hindsight I agree with much of it for CM's.

A "heavy healing" build for me (Glyphed RG, SotF) with reliance on direct healing was definitely the way to go especially early on, with the sheer amount of tank damage. I'm not sure if Cenarion Ward is the best way to go, it is definitely more control but at the cost of GCD's which could be used for more RG. Even if it is higher healing, you have to look at that opportunity cost.

I'm also curious why Xariah (I believe it's his breakdown you are linking) went with Germination over RG either, since Rejuv duration does not seem that meaningful. So far my runs have been using an ultra-heavy RG/SotF build with heavy RG/Swiftmend usage. Perhaps the Swiftmend is not worth the buff (waste of a global) versus just spamming RG. Perhaps it's because reapplication of Rejuv is too much. I might give Germination/SotF a go tonight to see.

Also worth noting Xariah is geared for Haste over Mastery, even though Mastery "should" pull ahead if your direct healing is a larger % of your total. Unless you have new Klaxxi amber, it might be difficult to regen without some usage of tricks.

Per your last points: As discussed in another thread on this forum, honestly, Tranquility is just garbage in 5 mans. With undergeared (630 max) and 5 man (Tranq scales to 20 man), it just doesn't heal for anything especially given the channel. Wild Mushroom has been very helpful for me, surprisingly, on some fights, but given their faster pulling I can see it pulling behind as my group begins to speed up (tempo, as you said).

[vuulu]

So would mastery be better to stack than haste atm?

[Deleted]

I'm a little surprised at just HOW low Mushroom is. Rest was obviously gonna turn out that way. What is surprising you exactly?

- - - Updated - - -

/edit: CWard does look kinda unintuitive. With how tank damage is I can see its use though. Gonna try it next time.

[Deleted]

Considering it's CM runs of one of the best groups EU, you can count on two things:
1) They pull really fast and a lot - you need the big instant heals even at the expense of bigger mana cost. You don't waste time standing around. Many of the fights are rather movement intensive, so maybe he just prefers to blanket rejuv over casting shroom.
2) People don't stand in fire - seriously, most of my HC (not CM) runs end up with me running really low on mana on many bosses because people stand in shit, I need to spread the healing, blanket rejuv, blow cooldowns on others etc. I can't really afford to go for glyphed Regrowth and Rampant Growth because of mana issues.

Overall I think the logs are not surprising, they make sense and the build is probably best for CMs. But people should take it with a grain of salt because what works for number 1 CM group isn't necessarily best for 610ilvl HC pug runs.

[Hildrande]

Also worth noting Xariah is geared for Haste over Mastery, even though Mastery "should" pull ahead if your direct healing is a larger % of your total. Unless you have new Klaxxi amber, it might be difficult to regen without some usage of tricks.

On the Armory, she still has 6% more Mastery than Haste, buffed the difference will be even larger. And half her healing is still from heal over time effects.

Is drinking the standard lvl100 water the fastest way to regen mana, currently? Or are there any items which enables faster mana regen?

[Vayra]

I'm a little surprised at just HOW low Mushroom is.

It's so mana heavy - and so hard to get a lot of healing from it due to just how much movement their is. There are very very few pulls were I can toss down an efflo it can be sat in the whole duration.

[Hildrande]

A "heavy healing" build for me (Glyphed RG, SotF) with reliance on direct healing was definitely the way to go especially early on, with the sheer amount of tank damage.

That's what I'm been using too, finding the Regrowth glyph absolutely indispensable. SotF-ed Regrowths hits really hard. Good point regarding GCD usage, maybe pure Regrowth spam is just as good. To evaluate using Rampant Growth for more tank healing I think you would need to do the math, calculate HPS and HPM on that vs just spamming Regrowth.

I have my eyes set on Rampant Growth and Wild Growth for 20-man. I'm going to try Incarnation tonight, for the burst.

[Vayra]

I have my eyes set on Rampant Growth and Wild Growth for 20-man. I'm going to try Incarnation tonight, for the burst.

The real "Burst" comes from Double Rejuv in Incarn -> Gen -> Repeat. Beats instant regrowth spamming easily.

[Hildrande]

The real "Burst" comes from Double Rejuv in Incarn -> Gen -> Repeat. Beats instant regrowth spamming easily.

It's not double, it's +50% - isn't it? Combined with Genesis, that's an idea, I might try do the math.

A PS to earlier discussions,
Dream of Cenarius: A nice mana-conserving filler, but you are spending the talent row on an ability only really usable when nothing much is going on. Maybe it's ok in PUGs where you don't communicate much with the tank regarding pace and want to keep your mana topped, but Nature's Vigil has to be better for all situations that actually matters.
Glyph of Blooming: I'm getting 4-5% healing from the bloom, and I'm sure it's very mana efficient and all, but it overheals alot, and I'm thinking the attention it requires might not make it worthwhile.

[Vayra]

It's not double, it's +50% - isn't it? Combined with Genesis, that's an idea, I might try do the math.

I'm not math man by ANY means but taking it at face value. Both Rejuv and germ.. whatever.. the second rejuv get consumed.

"Genesis heals the target for an amount equal to the healing from the consumed Rejuvenation effects over 3 sec."

Both of them are the same so wouldn't it just be.. twice the amount? Since it's just two rejuvs being added together and ticking over 3 seconds?

I just know. That when my tank is getting chunked. That's the highest amount of healing I could do in the shortest amount of globals.

[Hildrande]

I'm not math man by ANY means but taking it at face value. Both Rejuv and germ.. whatever.. the second rejuv get consumed.

If I do the math I'll post it here. The napkin version:

What Genesis does is give you 5 Rejuvenations' worth of healing in 6 GCDs - or 6 in 7 GCDs, with Germination. My tooltip rejuv value with Germination is 19124, plus ~10% crit is 21k. With Incarnation that's 31.5k, times 6/7 is 27K healing per GCD with full rejuv spam + Genesis. My Regrowth tooltip value is 12k, times 3 for crit bonus and Living Seed means it heals for 36k per GCD.

So Regrowth spam beats Incarnation Rejuv + Genesis in terms of throughput, but not by a huge amount.

Mana-wise Regrowth costs 5962, incarnated rejuv costs 3024*0.7=2117. Genesis is 7424. One incarnated and genesised rejuv costs 2117+7424/6=3335.

HPM for Regrowth spam, with my unbuffed tooltip values, is 6, for the full 6-rejuv Genesis solution it's 9.4. So the Rejuvenation solution is some 50% more mana efficient - assuming 6 HoTs, if you only Genesis 4 of them they will be more costly.

Regrowth is insta, whereas Genesis means that the first target you rejuvenate will see the full healing 6 GCDs + 3 seconds down the road. Sometimes that matters.

This also assumes full benefit from Living Seed which is probably not far off for situations that actually matters.

I think it's probably a good solution to blanketrejuv and spend the rest of the GCDs on Regrowth. You then avoid spending mana on Genesis.

[nightfalls]

You are of course right (apart from the Genesis math above) Incarnation does in fact not add more throughput to Regrowth, it only makes it castable while moving.

I'm wondering if that's still higher than simply using Regrowth though, considering in the latter scenario:

1) You still have Rejuv reolling and possibly not just on the tank (if there is raid damage too), while Genesis consumes it.
2) You get automatic critical from Regrowth with glyph.
3) You get the Living Seed from Regrowth.

If you want to put Rejuv back that's a total of 5 globals, unless the Rejuvs are pre-placed in which case that single burst is only usable once/3 minutes anyway and comes at the price of having to waste more GCD's putting more Rejuv back up.

P.S. I'm liking Cenarion Ward, surprisingly. No logs to see exactly how "good" it is though, versus just look/feel.

[axxey]

I'd assume for challenge mode pushing, every mana drink is immediately before a pull so cenarian ward is 1 more pre-emptive thing to throw out before grab a sip.

[Deleted]

The mushroom usage is low because there are not really many situations where everyone takes damage and will stand in the mushroom so instead I probably choose to dps instead. And I do try to go Int > Haste > Multistrike in Challenge Modes even though my current gear is terrible. I just value dpsing way more right now anyway. Haven't played a ''healer'' in Challenge Modes ever. I did play Disc priest in MoP but that was basically a dps spec. So I do not have the mindset of a healer.

And for Tranq it's like so hard to find a good time to use it because of playing with a monk. Almost 80% of the time if you use tranq the tank will die. But yes there could be moments where you can tranq but again, I probably choose to dps unless really needed. Keep in mind there is a lot of movement too.

Basically Dps > Hps when you go for speed runs.

And yeh cenarion ward is way better.

I'll be watching this thread!

[Deleted]

Glyph of Blooming: I'm getting 4-5% healing from the bloom, and I'm sure it's very mana efficient and all, but it overheals alot, and I'm thinking the attention it requires might not make it worthwhile.

Yeah, I get the same feeling. I liked the math on paper, but me being only human it's taking so much attention for such an unfun mechanic and so much overheal. So a PvP glyph it is

I'm not math man by ANY means but taking it at face value. Both Rejuv and germ.. whatever.. the second rejuv get consumed.

"Genesis heals the target for an amount equal to the healing from the consumed Rejuvenation effects over 3 sec."

Both of them are the same so wouldn't it just be.. twice the amount? Since it's just two rejuvs being added together and ticking over 3 seconds?

I just know. That when my tank is getting chunked. That's the highest amount of healing I could do in the shortest amount of globals.

Rejuv and Germination get summed up before being turned into Genesis, so +100% here.
ToL adds 50% to each Rejuv.
ToL + Rejuv + Germination into Genesis should be 300% of just Rejuv into Genesis.
I think you two might be talking about different numbers here


@pure tank heal spam:
[SotF-SM + RG] should beat [RG + RG] by the healing amount of the Swiftmend. And it's a bit cheaper. It makes RG glyph even more mandatory though.

[Mili]

Basically Dps > Hps when you go for speed runs.

Well looking at your Logs (i guess they are yours?!)
You did 28million and 4,9k DPS Overall.
On some Bosses it was around 5% of Total DPS, so i can see how that could help a bit... but its not really comparable to Discipline in MoP, sadly

I'm really interested in this Discussion as i'm healing alot of CMs myself, but in a more casual way right now we just take guildies who need the dailie and take our time, so no Gold yet

At first i was healing mainly with Healing Touch+Hots(Germination) with Incarnation and Natures Vigil as Cooldowns.
But Tank Damage and also Group Damage got pretty bursty at times and after seeing this Thread i switched my playstyle up abit... healing more with RG+Glyph, also switched to alchemy for the Trinket so i can last longer.

Most of the time we dont even have Bloodlust so fights take their time!

Tranq is really situational, i can confirm that... most of the time its total crap.
But sometimes its good to heal up the Group (when the Tank is not getting hammered on for some Seconds).

For the next few runs i will switch Incarnation out for SotF and see how that goes.
i guess i'll use it for Wild Growth most of the time because i got the most trouble when ppl take unnecessary damage and i need to burst up the Tank and several others...(yeah thats no Gold progress there )

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/destromath/Celari/simple

looking forward to some Resto Druid talk.

[Deleted]

The way Xariah is doing the dungeons is specifically catered to doing timed runs, where squeezing out all the damage to meet certain thresholds is far more important than keeping his group topped on hp, i.e. using a global on a mushroom instead of him continuing to spam damage out.
Basically, DPS wins out over healing, it's not about catering to the healer, it's more along the lines of playing as a group of 5 dps.

[Deleted]

I'm also curious why Xariah (I believe it's his breakdown you are linking) went with Germination over RG either, since Rejuv duration does not seem that meaningful. So far my runs have been using an ultra-heavy RG/SotF build with heavy RG/Swiftmend usage. Perhaps the Swiftmend is not worth the buff (waste of a global) versus just spamming RG. Perhaps it's because reapplication of Rejuv is too much. I might give Germination/SotF a go tonight to see.

2x Rejuv is a lot of passive healing that will last a while, and you can apply it in advance whenever you have a moment where the tank doesn't need healing. That has been key for me in CMs thus far. For instance, the second boss in Skyreach was nearly impossible without pre-hotting prior to the stomp. It would have been much harder to deal with that kind of AoE damage using only reaction heals, there simply wasn't enough time in which I could stop healing the tank. RG is for movement and PvP, not throughput.

[Deleted]

EDIT: Tooltip didn't make logical sense, loving RG atm.