Any other Holadins having trouble with CM's?

[tratra]

Hey fellow holadins,

I haven't played a holadin for a long time actually I recently just started again. And the only experience of holadin I had was during the very start of Cata, which was alright I guess. I was raiding in a top end raiding guild back then and they liked my performance even though I was new to the class.

Well to the point now, Yesterday I went on Skyreach CM to do my daily... First boss took 2 tries and it was a tough as healing fight. I can say that double beacon is nice but even with that the dmg is way too high. I'd say I healed at my top capabilities to bring the boss down (I cant really say I was with the best group around) but still a heavy healing fight.
2nd boss, oh lord. Well it took us 6 tries to down him. Thats fair enough and I like the difficulty. But man the healing.... It seemed like a total RNG tuned fight so hard to heal through that. Everyone takes around 60-80k per 20secs and then 3 beams * 10-15k dmg per second and the dmg from the boss to the tank as well. While my biggest heal with avenging will crit 65-70k ... Its a nightmare.

I personally like that blizzard turned paladin to be more of a tank healer and removed the AOE's and the only aoe's we got do very low healing. But at the same point I don't like that we don't have big heals and small heals to choose from. Like what happened to holy light man, the big fat heal with a long casting time but you could choose whether to use that or not. I know blizzard said that healers should choose which spell to use so its not robotic and I agree but let me choose between heavy heals and less heavy or mana dependency heals and no mana dependancy heals (guess they've done with flash of heal but it seems like there is no way you won't heal in CM's using flash of heal atm).
It just feels absurd that there are a few fights that are heavily aoe while we have no way to keep up with healing everyone mana wise, and fights that require a lot of movement + heavy aoe party dmg...


So ye I made this thread to ask you about your experiences so far and what do you think of the changes so far? And what are your opinions about other healers and where they are standing atm. Haven't seen much of others than druids which imo blizzard has made them a must once again for anything pve wise.

[Deleted]

CM are supposed to be tough. Major impact is individual player skill - most of the damage could be avoided but players tend to stand in fire/poison or some other aoe stuff. Whilst you are able to compensate other players lack of movement in heroics, CM will most likely wipe your squad instantly.

Speaking from a holy paladin point of view (we did silver runs last weekend) - I personally came up with macroing Beacon of Light on every heal resulting in lot of beacon swapping on several targets. Along with FoL glyph that adds additional fast and quick heal. I also specced from EF to SS to avoid any casting times. Movement is critical, casting time sucks for HP.

As for talents:

Pursuit of Justice (because I rarely spend HP when not having EF in CM, gives you constant movement speed)
Fist of Justice
Sacred Shield
Unbreakable Spirit
Sanctified Wrath
Holy Prism
Saved by the Light

[tratra]

Ok yes I agree at some points with you. The macro with the beacon of light was happening a lot during Beta and I've done that. Although I think thats not how the class should have been played in general having to macro spells to counter other things like mana.

About sacred shield and eternal flame I am a bit between, I've been switching between them cause there are fights that you'll find SS very helpful but there are others that EF will give you the extra fast heal you need.

It just feels like am lacking on something atm that druid fulfills.

[Deleted]

I already gave up tbh. Not because i don't like a chalenge but it feels like i'm trying to go uphill on a scooter when i can just grab a more fun motorcycle and do the same path. The dificulty seems artificial not because you suck but because the class doesn't provide me with all the options i feel i need.

Cast time on our finishers is just too bad to explain gameplay-wise. Lack of real AOE options that are effective aswell (10 yards in holy radiance is old century tbh).


Too bad my druid doesnt wear plate armor, i love paladins mostly because of plate armor + holy warrior geekiness, but i'm droping it unfortunately.

[Gumboy]

Wasn't very hard at all doing the three dailies i've done so far, but I have a very good group.

Playing EF/DP/Double beacon/cd reuction on LoH (can't remember name of talent lol)

we cc on some trash, some we don't have to, some we have the tank kiting (Enraged packs in skyreach)

- - - Updated - - -

LOTS of flash of light spam :P

[Veraki]

I can only by your original post but you need to be using your full arsenal in order to do well at the CM's and change talents accordingly for each dungeon. it's not clear if you are doing this but i suspect you are not as all your talk about is pure throughput of the healing spells and them not being enough.

For example unbreakable spirit i drop for many heroic dungeons and CM's for the double sac from Clemency (i find this works as a mana ‘conservant’ and saving peoples lives).

In Skyreach you can eat a beam yourself with DP / bubble. AM as a CD for one set, Cd's for another, Beacon of faith here helps immensely too. It sounds like you just need to get using all your abilities which i can appreciate you may not given the long break in playing the class. It will come

Other things to consider not put in your post, whats your ilvl / gear like? Are you doing like so many other and not bothering to enchant etc yet - this all makes critical differences in these CM's.


Are they difficult at the moment - yes but it's great and they are more than doable.
Are we worse off than other healers? No not really. AOE heals / smart heals have (rightly so) been nerfed across the board.

To the guy switching already (knightpt) i appreciate everyone can play how they want and if changing for you is what you want, best of luck and hope you enjoy the new class you choose. But giving up when you are probably not doing things right just screams fotm mate and we are less than a week into the xpac.

[tratra]

I can only by your original post but you need to be using your full arsenal in order to do well at the CM's and change talents accordingly for each dungeon. it's not clear if you are doing this but i suspect you are not as all your talk about is pure throughput of the healing spells and them not being enough.

For example unbreakable spirit i drop for many heroic dungeons and CM's for the double sac from Clemency (i find this works as a mana ‘conservant’ and saving peoples lives).

In Skyreach you can eat a beam yourself with DP / bubble. AM as a CD for one set, Cd's for another, Beacon of faith here helps immensely too. It sounds like you just need to get using all your abilities which i can appreciate you may not given the long break in playing the class. It will come

Other things to consider not put in your post, whats your ilvl / gear like? Are you doing like so many other and not bothering to enchant etc yet - this all makes critical differences in these CM's.


Are they difficult at the moment - yes but it's great and they are more than doable.
Are we worse off than other healers? No not really. AOE heals / smart heals have (rightly so) been nerfed across the board.

To the guy switching already (knightpt) i appreciate everyone can play how they want and if changing for you is what you want, best of luck and hope you enjoy the new class you choose. But giving up when you are probably not doing things right just screams fotm mate and we are less than a week into the xpac.

Yes well as stated above I do use anything available for holy paladins + in my full arsenal. I've done 3 CM's so far as well and completed them all. The whole post is just to bring how absurd it is and frustrating healing a holy paladin, without having a big heal for example. While other classes have the same healing they lack the beacons but they are higher on the hots shielding and aoe healing and that makes up for the beacons and surpasses them.

My current ilvl is 647 I do have enchants and sockets where I can socket, my stats are looking fine from a lot of perspectives, and I do fully understand the class. I am a substitute healer for a top 5 guild atm by choice but they wouldn't allow me to play if I wasn't able to do it. Although I am playing in weird hours daily which is after am don with my real life and work stuff and I get to pug CM's and not do them with people I know.

The group plays a massive role.

On the 2nd boss skyreach yes I used my bubble for 1 of the beams but I can't rly say that was all of it. What I got annoying from is that there is a fight that requires you to go completely OOM in order to survive it, so my actually question to blizzard is where is the point in changing healers as they said to choose who they want to heal and what spell they should use. All I see on my paladin so far is Flash of Light


btw smart healing has been removed from what I've read so far and yes thats a good thing forward. Its just like am feeling as a Hpala I am using a toyota while an Rdruid has a ferrari on his hand. Thats what I am comparing with, I do think they need to balance it much more than it is atm. And they had their feedback in Beta where rdruids were broken.

[Veraki]

Yes well as stated above I do use anything available for holy paladins + in my full arsenal. I've done 3 CM's so far as well and completed them all. The whole post is just to bring how absurd it is and frustrating healing a holy paladin, without having a big heal for example. While other classes have the same healing they lack the beacons but they are higher on the hots shielding and aoe healing and that makes up for the beacons and surpasses them.

My current ilvl is 647 I do have enchants and sockets where I can socket, my stats are looking fine from a lot of perspectives, and I do fully understand the class. I am a substitute healer for a top 5 guild atm by choice but they wouldn't allow me to play if I wasn't able to do it. Although I am playing in weird hours daily which is after am don with my real life and work stuff and I get to pug CM's and not do them with people I know.

The group plays a massive role.

On the 2nd boss skyreach yes I used my bubble for 1 of the beams but I can't rly say that was all of it. What I got annoying from is that there is a fight that requires you to go completely OOM in order to survive it, so my actually question to blizzard is where is the point in changing healers as they said to choose who they want to heal and what spell they should use. All I see on my paladin so far is Flash of Light


btw smart healing has been removed from what I've read so far and yes thats a good thing forward. Its just like am feeling as a Hpala I am using a toyota while an Rdruid has a ferrari on his hand. Thats what I am comparing with, I do think they need to balance it much more than it is atm. And they had their feedback in Beta where rdruids were broken.

Ah fair enough mate, your gear better than mine by some way haha.

Agreed re decisions on heals vs just spamming FoL. I just hope this is due to it being so early on. Be interesting to see once Highmaul etc out and gear levels / stats higher. I don't remember the wod alpha beta thread making too many complaints about FoL spam. But totally agree that's what is happening at the moment.

[Deleted]

Had 0 problems getting any of the CM's done and I've got every realm best time.
Use beacon of faith and use HS on CD and beacon tank + either a melee or yourself. Spamming FL and watching for HS procs is the way to go

[Deleted]

Had 0 problems getting any of the CM's done and I've got every realm best time.
Use beacon of faith and use HS on CD and beacon tank + either a melee or yourself. Spamming FL and watching for HS procs is the way to go

If you've got every realm best time than you were with a very very above average group, as you can understand not everyone is playing with one

When you have a good group every healer can do well. When you have an average group some classes have way more tools than others to deal with it, even shine.

The holy paladin (imho ofc) has the least options for that. Your mileage may vary ofc. If you are a top 3 healer on your server than i guess any class will do, but understand you are not the "average" or benchmark this game should be aimed for. Not saying the game should be casual again mind you, this kind of content should be "hard", but imho all classes should be balanced enough to be similar in the fair change of sucess.

[Clrg]

CM in MoP wasnt balanced.

[Guyon]

Most of the ppl gotta understand they're not overgearing content anymore :-)
Running cms with ppl that stand in fire and think damage can be overhealed is not the way.
Yeah HolyPaladins are a bit weak, but the cms are more than doable. Expecially if you don't look at the timers.

[Veraki]

Most of the ppl gotta understand they're not overgearing content anymore :-)
Running cms with ppl that stand in fire and think damage can be overhealed is not the way.
Yeah HolyPaladins are a bit weak, but the cms are more than doable. Expecially if you don't look at the timers.

I presume you mean the additional sockets as overgearing? gear including trinkets were scaled down and often meant that the lower I'll stuff was bis. So don't think this is right, bar sockets as I mention.

[Deleted]

From my opinion (and we finally did some of them on Gold) you can't go without SS. EF is utterly useless if you are trying hard.

[mcbubble]

I think CMS are very dependent upon strats + a good group.
Good situational awareness + good dps makes the fights very trivial.

Granted, if you want to faceroll CMs, roll a druid.
Look at wow progress:
http://www.wowprogress.com/challenge/us

Almost all top ranks have a resto druid or priest. It's pretty pathetic.

[Guyon]

Granted, if you want to faceroll CMs, roll a druid.

It was the same at the start of MoP, druids were kings in CMs, yet i managed to do them all without problems with a fixed premade grp.

[Toejam]

It was the same at the start of MoP, druids were kings in CMs, yet i managed to do them all without problems with a fixed premade grp.

I don't think that's quite fair. At the moment the healing disparity in 5 mans is just ridiculous. Compare a druid helaer with a monk healer in a 5 man and its like night and day. Like there's a monk in my guild who every one knows is fantastic. Guy's been in there at every end of tier Heroic/Mythic boss, but he just cannot heal CMs.

No doubt that monks will be much stronger in a raid environment, but the CMs seem far too unforgiving as to which healers are really viable.

[shammypie]

From my opinion (and we finally did some of them on Gold) you can't go without SS. EF is utterly useless if you are trying hard.

i did several with EF and DP. To me EF was like an investment heal you put on other dps. If you get lucky on procs you have it rolling on everyone and it makes it esier to keep everyone up including the tank since you have all that healing feeding back through beacon.

[Deleted]

What macro exactly are you guys using for beacon/fol?

[tratra]

this thing is getting out of hand guys ...

Getting a lot of group rejects saying sorry you are an Hpala and we don't have good experience with them, which is true... they haven't seen how I play or if am good enough or anything like that, just by the class.

blizz fix asap!