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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    And the rest of the relevant bit starts at 1:59. Which is what the president is likely to do. He's not going to be all like "hey guyz, no more deportationz evar! lulz executive order all in yo face."
    What's relevant about that portion?
    1:59 That does not mean, though, that we can't make decisions, for example, to emphasize enforcement on those who’ve engaged in criminal activity. It also doesn’t mean that we can't strongly advocate and propose legislation that would change the law in order to make it more fair, more just, and ultimately would help young people who are here trying to do the right thing and whose talents we want to embrace in order to succeed as a country.
    Do you think that's what he's going so say tonight? That he's going to advocate for legislation? Is that really what you think he's going to announce?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Which is why Obama is calling for comprehensive reform.

    No one on either side just wants amnesty...both sides want a permanent fix to the problem. Which is why a bipartisan bill was possible and why the bill includes strengthening the border, dealing with the process for legal immigration, and handling the people already here.
    No one just wants amnesty, but you have to tie amnesty to the immigration reform. Which I feel is not what the president or some liberals want. You cant do just amnesty or no longer enforce immigration laws and hope the other reforms will happen because they wont.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    No one just wants amnesty, but you have to tie amnesty to the immigration reform. Which I feel is not what the president or some liberals want.
    A bipartisan immigration bill that Obama said he would sign passed the Senate but was ignored in the House.

  4. #44
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkava View Post
    What's relevant about that portion?Do you think that's what he's going so say tonight? That he's going to advocate for legislation? Is that really what you think he's going to announce?
    The portion where they focus deportation on criminal elements and thus leave those who have citizen children alone for now. As well as a whole bunch of things unrelated to amnesty such as additional resources for the border and other actions I'm sure.

    He isn't going to say "starting today the US will no longer deport illegals."

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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    No one just wants amnesty, but you have to tie amnesty to the immigration reform. Which I feel is not what the president or some liberals want. You cant do just amnesty or no longer enforce immigration laws and hope the other reforms will happen because they wont.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Liberals don't want immigration reform? I mean...the whole idea is that you do tie amnesty to immigration reform.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    The portion where they focus deportation on criminal elements and thus leave those who have citizen children alone for now. As well as a whole bunch of things unrelated to amnesty such as additional resources for the border and other actions I'm sure.

    He isn't going to say "starting today the US will no longer deport illegals."
    Then I think you're going to be surprised tonight.

  6. #46
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkava View Post
    Then I think you're going to be surprised tonight.
    So...you really and truly believe that Obama is going to cease all deportations indefinitely for illegal immigrants?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    So...you really and truly believe that Obama is going to cease all deportations indefinitely for illegal immigrants?
    Is that what I said?

  8. #48
    He is only standing up for American values, you know, the whole “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

    Tongue in cheek post

  9. #49
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkava View Post
    Is that what I said?
    I said "He isn't going to say the US is going to stop deportations of illegals"

    You said "I think you'll be surprised then."

    You are implying my interpretation of your response is wrong. I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that then.

    You could always just come right out and say what you mean instead of playing games if you like. Otherwise we can go 'round and 'round and never get anywhere.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Apparently now he thinks he can suspend deportations via executive order (relevant bit starts at 1:06).

    He can, Kenedy did it for Cubans and Bush senior and Reagan did it for family of amnesty refugees. Against the wishes of Congress too
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    I said "He isn't going to say the US is going to stop deportations of illegals"

    You said "I think you'll be surprised then."

    You are implying my interpretation of your response is wrong. I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to take away from that then.

    You could always just come right out and say what you mean instead of playing games if you like. Otherwise we can go 'round and 'round and never get anywhere.
    I think he's going to announce deferred action for about 5,000,000 people. An action and authority that he specifically did not mention from 1:59 of the speech you referenced, which, incidentally, I remain baffled as to why you even pointed that out. You then said that
    He isn't going to say "starting today the US will no longer deport illegals."
    If that's what you think, then his decision to protect up to five million undocumented immigrants from deportation and provide many of them with permits to work legally in the United States may surprise you.

    Sorry for not swinging at your obvious and pathetic strawman attempt.

  12. #52
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkava View Post
    Sorry for not swinging at your obvious and pathetic strawman attempt.
    Maybe you should start just saying what you mean instead of playing these games you play. Because selectively enforcing immigration is different that stopping it all together.

    Which if you look at the video clip with even a hint of intellectual honesty you'd see that's the point being made. There are ways to enforce laws that don't violate the laws. That is the point.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Maybe you should start just saying what you mean instead of playing these games you play. Because selectively enforcing immigration is different that stopping it all together.

    Which if you look at the video clip with even a hint of intellectual honesty you'd see that's the point being made. There are ways to enforce laws that don't violate the laws. That is the point.
    I must have really disappointed you there. Sorry I didn't fall for your little strawman. Here's what the president said, at 1:59 which you said was relevant to his proposed action.
    1:59 That does not mean, though, that we can't make decisions, for example, to emphasize enforcement on those who’ve engaged in criminal activity. It also doesn’t mean that we can't strongly advocate and propose legislation that would change the law in order to make it more fair, more just, and ultimately would help young people who are here trying to do the right thing and whose talents we want to embrace in order to succeed as a country.
    What about that is relevant to him having the authority to effectively grant green cards to 5 million illegals?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. Liberals don't want immigration reform? I mean...the whole idea is that you do tie amnesty to immigration reform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    A bipartisan immigration bill that Obama said he would sign passed the Senate but was ignored in the House.
    Sorry, I take that back, I dont know how serious anyone is with immigration reform. Bush tried it, and now Obama has tried. It should be a slam dunk but Republicans have blocked it under both admins. When Democrats have had control they have balked on pushing any legislation. It seems this topic only comes up when it is conveniently easy to vote down. Instead of distancing themselves from Obama during the recent midterm cycle, the Dems should have embraced Obama and ran on immigration reform for his last two years. Instead Obama holds of until after the election to tackle this?

    If you ask me amnesty must come AFTER immigration reform. For two reasons: First, it gets both parties serious about passing immigration reform. Second, it keeps the flood of new illegals down while reform is being worked on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizardlorde View Post
    He can, Kenedy did it for Cubans and Bush senior and Reagan did it for family of amnesty refugees. Against the wishes of Congress too
    They took action to solve issues with the recent immigration legislation that was passed.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Sorry, I take that back, I dont know how serious anyone is with immigration reform. Bush tried it, and now Obama has tried. It should be a slam dunk but Republicans have blocked it under both admins. When Democrats have had control they have balked on pushing any legislation. It seems this topic only comes up when it is conveniently easy to vote down. Instead of distancing themselves from Obama during the recent midterm cycle, the Dems should have embraced Obama and ran on immigration reform for his last two years. Instead Obama holds of until after the election to tackle this?

    If you ask me amnesty must come AFTER immigration reform. For two reasons: First, it gets both parties serious about passing immigration reform. Second, it keeps the flood of new illegals down while reform is being worked on.



    They took action to solve issues with the recent immigration legislation that was passed.
    Just making a point that the power to halt deportation rests in the hands of the executive branch, which the person I quoted seems to doubt. Granting legal status is a whole different story.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Vizardlorde View Post
    Just making a point that the power to halt deportation rests in the hands of the executive branch, which the person I quoted seems to doubt. Granting legal status is a whole different story.
    I think the hope is to halt deportations in order to grant legal status at a later date. So in effect he is granting them legal status via halting deportations.

  17. #57
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    Going to be funny as hell when he does it. Can't wait to see it. They're here and thery're not going anywhere get used to it.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Hmm I don't know. I think we should be kicking these illegals out not giving them drivers licenses social security numbers and bank accounts.
    He's giving them work permits, which doesn't grant them SSN's, voting rights, drivers licenses, or any other rights of a citizen, just temporary deportation relief. But they STILL have to pay taxes. The whole entire point of doing this is to get Congress off their lazy asses and to actually fix the amnesty/immigration system which is broken to all hell. If he gives all current immigrants until-further-notice work permits, Congress will be required to pass an act that strikes his work permits down AND creates a path to citizenship.
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  19. #59
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    This has to be the dumbest Obama thread yet. Univision, being primarily a Spanish language station, and almost entirely watched by latino immigrants, or 1st or 2nd generation Americans born from latino immigrants, is obviously going to carry a speech by the President about immigration.

    That is just common sense.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Apparently now he thinks he can suspend deportations via executive order (relevant bit starts at 1:06).
    What's the issue? He can grant them work permits that only expire when congress either makes a law revoking them and granting path to amnesty or the next president uses EA to revoke them. Work permits would mean they can't be deported.
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