So now that most of the US pro's have gone alliance too

[Pyro1990]

This is all from last season but,

http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/player/
look at all those alliance

http://www.arenamate.net/?page=1
58.1% alliance
34.1% human

and random bg's don't matter in an argument about PVP pros, do you think all those 2.5k plus "pros" continue farming randoms 24/7 after the arena season starts? They aren't really part of the general mass of players queing for randoms during the season. Arena's and RBG representation is what matters.

[Hexme]

again if horde black list certain bgs that would in turn make for longer q's for ally as well right?who the hell is ally fighting in AV if all horde blocks that bg?you do not think ally has a black list bg option?saying horde has longer q's times because they block certain bgs when ally does the same makes no since at all.

You're not filling in the holes in your argument (use common sense). There's still Horde who don't blacklist AV and IoC cause they don't care about constantly losing and would have rather faster queue times or they're daft enough not to use blacklist feature.

If you're honor farming AV is still the number one place to farm honor even if you're constantly losing cause it's all about the honor per hour tell you get to the conquest per hour tell weekly cap.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

so your saying horde has longer q's because they black list certain bgs,but when ally does it it does not effect there q times?how the hell does that work?

Because AV and IoC take 80 players out of the queue at any given time. Blacklisting, say, WG and SotA takes out 25. 80 > 25.

[Baracuda]

again if horde black list certain bgs that would in turn make for longer q's for ally as well right?who the hell is ally fighting in AV if all horde blocks that bg?you do not think ally has a black list bg option?saying horde has longer q's times because they block certain bgs when ally does the same makes no since at all.

About 20% use blacklist, if those 20% are the best players (who make the biggest difference) it's only natural that the Horde will lose since the Alliance still has all it's best players in AV.

[Bakis]

I'm sorry I don't buy that.

I know in Europe, Alliance dominates the ladders but in the US Horde does, overwhelmingly so. If EMFH was so overpowered how does that happen? I'm not saying EMFH isn't the best PvP racial, but I very much think it's value is over blown.

I suppose we'll see this arena season if there is a perceivable shift on US servers.

Probably cos 99,99% of the pvp players are not good enough that it would matter, they like to believe they are and hop to alliance but well...
Cant blame them though as much as there is a difference of an advantage and being able to utilize said advantage it would be stupid not to go for it.

[stickyjam]

With the on use changed to versitility EMFH isn't even that strong...

[Elian]

the racial imbalance is intentional.
more people switching back and forth= more money.

[Deleted]

Human racial has no real effect on results on any skill level, the bonus damage you get from additional dps trinket is so small you will never see any difference in practical game environment. You maybe could see some damage difference in statistics over long period of time, but even then it would be very small and has nothing to do with real gameplay, in arena or rbg it doesnt matter that you do 0,01% more damage over 100 years.

The RNG nature of abilities damage also pretty much negates the "benefit" of having additional dps trinket over cc trinket. EMFH is nothing more than just plasebo, even for the best pvp players.

[Deleted]

not once did i just point out human in this thread.

Alliance has:
- Nelf Meld = well timed immunes every spell effect in the game
- Human Trinket = allows for double dps trinket use ( 241agi/str/int + 638versatility [ which is flatout 5% increased dmg ] is way better than 241crit the rest are getting from their free action trinket )
- Dwarf Stoneform = improved cloak of shadows with damage reduction and bleed removal
- Gnome Freedom = 1 minute cd hand of freedom

Unless the meta suddenly shifts to fear heavy comps like lsd dominating everything, undead and rest of the horde racials are way behind the alliance ones.

[Lulbalance]

This is all from last season but,

http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/player/
look at all those alliance

http://www.arenamate.net/?page=1
58.1% alliance
34.1% human

and random bg's don't matter in an argument about PVP pros, do you think all those 2.5k plus "pros" continue farming randoms 24/7 after the arena season starts? They aren't really part of the general mass of players queing for randoms during the season. Arena's and RBG representation is what matters.

this isnt last season, you're practically playing a new game - nothing in that post has any relevance. also this isnt about human racials specifically.. human dwarf and gnome are all better then any horde racial right now.

Human racial has no real effect on results on any skill level,

i know what you meant about the human racial since it is effective the same as a trink.. , outside of that, the other 2 strong racials (arguably 3 with smeld depending on the chlass) can dramatically change any given game. its not the just the action itself, stone form off a cc and the dr still applies..that a 24s momentum advantage on a 1min cd - that is an imbalance. DRs will be more important this season with the way the burst has been lowered - in mop you could get away with fkn them up a bit and staying up on pressure, you probably wont be able to do that now against good teams.

2nd; Will of the Forsaken was ok last season.. but it and fear both got nerfed... now we have an imbalance. the healing classes that did ok last year on horde that werent undead either had a blink for los and range or a broken tremor totem. this is where we're at i guess.

[alt-ithist]

Because AV and IoC take 80 players out of the queue at any given time. Blacklisting, say, WG and SotA takes out 25. 80 > 25.

If majority of horde blacklisted AV and IoC then then alliance que time is the one who would suffer. Considering you need an equal number of both faction for the BG to start and those 2 take the longest to finish, there would be a lot of alliance waiting on them. As horde I usually win the mines and strand but I know those take the longest to pop since alliance seem to avoid those. Think back in vanilla when most horde avoided AV so the que was extremely short for them while alliance would have queues hours long.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

If majority of horde blacklisted AV and IoC then then alliance que time is the one who would suffer.

Reading Comprehension 1 : You 0

The point is most of the Horde doesn't, which is a shame since they should so that the Alliance are the ones with the pathetic queue times and lack of easy honor. However, for those who do blacklist, their queues are greatly affected by blacklisting AV and IoC because it takes far more people out of the queue than any two battlegrounds a sane Alliance player would pick, if any.

[Time Sage]

Because the smart ones put AV and IoC on their blacklist, since that's yet another reason lots of people are going Alliance for PVP -- free and easy honor with minimal effort. Whereas the smarter Alliance get to... well, they get to blacklist whichever two they simply don't like. And with AV and IoC being the two biggest battlegrounds -- and there being plenty of stupid Horde players who don't even know what the blacklist is -- it's easy peasy for them to get a BG to pop.

I put those on my blacklist on both my ally and horde

[Evida]

Well, if Blizzard would have improved some more PvP trinkets with passive stats like Haste, Mastery or Versatility, not only Crit + Spirit + Stamina, then I guess more of Alliance would play races different from humans. Fo example human is still the best race for a DK cause the class does not benefit at all from currently existing PvP trinkets bonuses lets say, if we have PvP trinket with Mastery on it, I would start to think of race changing to a gnome as a Dk

[Gigana]

By now, I've accepted that OP human racial is never going away and that we'll have to live with dwarf/gnome racial for some years, at least until next expansion.

All I hope for at this point for is that Holinka decides to throw the horde a bone and disable all racials in instanced PvP. I think that's about as much as the horde can hope for.

[Gumboy]

the us is down in skill compared to eu.
Now, after the us boys got beaten with a stick from eu at blizzcon, they are starting to evaluate and learn.

You realize that us won just last year, right?

[Deleted]

While we're at it, EMFH isn't the only PvP racial that holds an unfair advantage. I strongly dislike the free vanish Night Elves get: Shadow Meld. EMFH and SM lead to two things: Humans deal more damage or survive more damage and Night Elves are far more slippery than any other class. Even if it's just dropping target/focus it's already quite effective. Nelf druids are so slippery you have to put up a sign.
How can we fix this without taking out the fun?

EMFH: Make it a baseline ability for all players. The PvP trinket is by far the most boring gear slot that has a use effect associated with it. As having access to the use effect is mandatory there is no reason to not give it out as a baseline spell. Make it "only works for Player based CC and CC associated with PvP (ashran NPCs)" for everyone else and give Humans the buff to make it work in PvE.
Done, fixed. Humans still have their PvE advantage and the boring PvP slot and the imbalance issues due to it are gone.

SM: More difficult to fix for PvP as the effect as such is rather strong for some classes. I'd suggest that it puts stealth abilities on a 2 second CD or that it doesn't drop combat for a couple of seconds. You can still use it to drop target/focus but you can't use it to restealth mid fight which is the primary reason you'd go Nelf druid over any other druid.


In general, Blizzard didn't do a very good job overhauling the racials because they missed balancing combat relevant racials against racials that are or become irrelevant to the game completely. For example the human racial "Diplomacy" or the Troll racial "Beast Slaying" become completely irrelevant at some point. And the Orc racial "Command" is useless for all but 3 classes. Blizzard wants us to chose our races based on the visual aspects of the races and which lore we prefer but they didn't manage to remove racials or bring them to a level that do matter for either PvE or PvP.
And what's with the nerf of WotF? It mainly counters Warlocks but on a 2 minute CD it wasn't that locks didn't have a chance against undead, as it puts the insignia on a 45 second CD. Arguably, you don't want a racial that counters one specific class but neither do you want to have racials that benefit a few classes beyond reason.
Blizzard just doesn't look at it this way. I'd really like an explanation but we wont get one like we didn't get one if they were considering making heroic leap work up walkable slopes in PvP and instances again.

[Rucati]

The only class I'd want to play as Human is Hunter.

Any melee I'd want to be Gnome for Escape Artist which is *significantly* stronger than Every Man for Himself.

Any caster I'd want to be Dwarf for Stone Form which is also *significantly* stronger than Every Man for Himself.

Hunters just happen to not need either of those spells, so the extra trinket is better than either, but every other class has better racials between Night Elf, Dwarf and Gnome.

But it's kind of whatever, Horde had better racials up until this point, and things will probably change again next expansion.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

The only class I'd want to play as Human is Hunter.

Any melee I'd want to be Gnome for Escape Artist which is *significantly* stronger than Every Man for Himself.

Any caster I'd want to be Dwarf for Stone Form which is also *significantly* stronger than Every Man for Himself.

Translation: "Horde racials suck and Alliance racials are overpowered compared to the other options."

[Rucati]

Translation: "Horde racials suck and Alliance racials are overpowered compared to the other options."

We were specifically talking about Alliance. Horde racials don't suck, they just aren't the best anymore like they have been since vanilla. Can still play Horde and be viable at high ratings, just like Alliance has always been viable, it just isn't ideal. Honestly if you aren't at least a 2900 player you aren't losing games because of your race.