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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    Not trying to poke fun or anything, but if this is going to be a Q&A (especially when a lot of the questions being asked are answered in other threads on here) I would at least like to make sure things are accurately said in here.

    2. Glyph of Outbreak is a loss single target, and a slight gain in dps in aoe situations. That being said PL is used to plug empty holes in your rotation, so sometimes you might use it right off CD and sometimes you might have an overflow of runes/downtime on boss where you should be using it anyways. Pretty much from my experience it gets used either right away, or within 10-15 seconds after coming off CD. That also depends on the fight at hand and given any adds or such, as well as what your runes/runic is at.

    3. The stats for Unholy right now are MS>Mastery>Crit~=Versatility>Haste. This has been posted and shown a lot in the DK simcraft thread here. To put in perspective how saying Haste = Crit = Versatility is so off, Haste is only slightly above half the weight of MS, while Crit/Versatility are about 75%.
    I expanded on #2 in post 19 were I explained that in theory using on ever CD is a DPS gain, as for Glyph of Outbreak honestly its a personal option if you want it use it if not don't its not going to make or break your DPS. So on that we are in on the same train of thought, I could have posted the robot min/max answer but I chose to give him an option that allows for more wiggle room in the rotation if he wanted it.

    as for #3 in my opinion and experience after your top 2 a 3rd stat is going to be sparse and will be more to compliment your play style.

    Now if we want to talk pure min/max then yeah Glyph of Outbreak is a no no as its a loss of DPS single target, Plague leech is poped on every CD and coaxed to pop depleted blood and/or frost runes when possible and your 3rd secondary stat would be vers as its a flat gain in DPS and is not chance based like crit. but I figured he was looking for a second opinion out side the peanut gallery of min/max'ers

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    I expanded on #2 in post 19 were I explained that in theory using on ever CD is a DPS gain, as for Glyph of Outbreak honestly its a personal option if you want it use it if not don't its not going to make or break your DPS. So on that we are in on the same train of thought, I could have posted the robot min/max answer but I chose to give him an option that allows for more wiggle room in the rotation if he wanted it.

    as for #3 in my opinion and experience after your top 2 a 3rd stat is going to be sparse and will be more to compliment your play style.

    Now if we want to talk pure min/max then yeah Glyph of Outbreak is a no no as its a loss of DPS single target, Plague leech is poped on every CD and coaxed to pop depleted blood and/or frost runes when possible and your 3rd secondary stat would be vers as its a flat gain in DPS and is not chance based like crit. but I figured he was looking for a second opinion out side the peanut gallery of min/max'ers
    From my experience, if I was ever going to be asking something to a Q&A panel I want full complete answers. I want reasons why X is better then Y and math behind it, I want the PoV of both the casual as well as the top end so that I can choose the position between them I like personally.

    It's like answering someone in the Fix my DK DPS thread, and not giving them a full answer. Even if they aren't a min/maxer, give them the correct way that isn't just going on things like personal options. Because then later when they look at a guide and see what you said, is incorrect, it invalidates you in future exchanges.

    Edit- I'm not trying to be rude or de-validate you. However when you go into a community that has a wide range of well respected people whom are always willing to help, and you aren't actually telling 100% truths on what people should be doing... expect someone to speak up. We have a dps thread, blood DK thread, simcraft thread, Warlords changes, and more all located in this forum alone. There's also sites like sonofalich which is entirely dedicated to DK's. There's also Acherus chat which a lot of people from the DK community (and not just limited to people who solely play DK's) talk about stuff. The DK community is one of the best out there, so spreading misinformation or not full truths can spark someone's interest to say what is true (my interest in this case).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    From my experience, if I was ever going to be asking something to a Q&A panel I want full complete answers. I want reasons why X is better then Y and math behind it, I want the PoV of both the casual as well as the top end so that I can choose the position between them I like personally.

    It's like answering someone in the Fix my DK DPS thread, and not giving them a full answer. Even if they aren't a min/maxer, give them the correct way that isn't just going on things like personal options. Because then later when they look at a guide and see what you said, is incorrect, it invalidates you in future exchanges.
    We can argue the points till we are blue in the face; however, a good player takes what they learn from sources X,Y,and Z and uses them to tune and tweak their rotation, stats, and glyphs till they find what maximizes their DPS for them. I'll freely admit my advice is not min/max according to computer sim's, but I'm also not a computer and fights are rarely a patchwork perfect situation. I have been a theory crafter for years but this expansion and thread has been the first time I have been willing to freely share my work with the public, till now I kept my information to guild and friends because people did not like the Idea that I don't make heavy use of computer sims. Now if you do not agree with me or think I'm wrong you are free to think that; however, my theory's and opinions do not invalidate me in future discussions just cause they don't 100% match with the min/max crowd and their sims. If you want to join the discussion and offer the min/max view on questions then by all means do so I welcome it, but please do not say someones information invalidates them just cause it does not agree with yours.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    While I appreciate your efforts in attempting to educate and spread information to people, there should be some more method in how you do it. Giving information that you personally believe is better as opposed to what is (as of posting) mathematically correct, shouldn't be part of the equation when it comes to giving an answer. Either give the real answer or don't give one. Telling someone something in order to give them "wiggle room" when they aren't asking for it isn't really fair on them as they may walk away with incorrect information, such as versatility being equal to both crit and haste, which simply isn't accurate.

    EDIT: That might've sounded a little harsh.

    Essentially I'm saying that you should give people the information that has been proven to be correct, not information that you feel is correct or that has so far worked better for you.
    Last edited by mmocb98bc3d62f; 2014-11-22 at 11:47 PM.

  5. #25
    I added a disclaimer so that people know this is not another min/max sims data thread, now please lets get this thread back on track. I do welcome min/max'ers to share there information compared to mine, we are all here to help the player base. so please lets get back to doing just that. giving them information and then letting them use that to find what works for them.

    Thank you all for your input and future cooperation.

  6. #26
    I think the point is lost on what we are trying to tell you, because we aren't just saying this from the point of view of min/maxers or simcrafters. We just plain know the difference between correct information, and information that isn't. You're trying to straight tell people things that aren't correct based on "what you feel".
    More or less, what always works for people, is things that have been proven to work.

  7. #27
    Hey guys this forum has been a huge help since elitist jerks seams to no longer be a good place for info.
    I am currently DW frost but i know for right now UH is a little better but i just cant seam to figure unholy out to get the max DPS out of my gear. I love the play style of frost because well it seams its easier to DPS.

    Anyone have some tips for Unholy?

    Also side question for frost is DW better then 2h? or are they even.

    Thanks for your time.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Algebraic429 View Post
    Hey guys this forum has been a huge help since elitist jerks seams to no longer be a good place for info.
    I am currently DW frost but i know for right now UH is a little better but i just cant seam to figure unholy out to get the max DPS out of my gear. I love the play style of frost because well it seams its easier to DPS.

    Anyone have some tips for Unholy?

    Also side question for frost is DW better then 2h? or are they even.

    Thanks for your time.
    to maximize Unholy is very annoying for some players, but as to what could be the issue with out more info I can't help you there. also for some players frost will always be better DPS for them then unholy. not every one can master ever spec; however, give us some details and we will see what we can do. as for frost, atm DW is sub-par Vs 2-hand, this is due largely to the limited amount of mastery you can get, in order of lowest to highest DPS for frost its.
    DW master simple > DW master complex > 2-hand frost. relatively speaking the numbers are close but 2-hand is the better one atm.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    to maximize Unholy is very annoying for some players, but as to what could be the issue with out more info I can't help you there. also for some players frost will always be better DPS for them then unholy. not every one can master ever spec; however, give us some details and we will see what we can do. as for frost, atm DW is sub-par Vs 2-hand, this is due largely to the limited amount of mastery you can get, in order of lowest to highest DPS for frost its.
    DW master simple > DW master complex > 2-hand frost. relatively speaking the numbers are close but 2-hand is the better one atm.
    Multi-strike best stat right now 2handed frost?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Algebraic429 View Post
    Multi-strike best stat right now 2handed frost?
    yes multi-strike and vers are best atm. after that I prefer haste over crit up to the point that my runes are 8.00 which is around 24%.

  11. #31
    Miff

    Unholy PVE

    Yo, I'm new to DKs this expac and literally have never played one before. i lvled as Blood for easy mode but now I'm Unholy for raiding/etc. I seem to be going very well on damage and it's rare to not be topping metres... however, my question is, is there a set rotation, like FS FS SS SS DC DC, to manage runes or is it 'whatever is usable first, use it'? Currently I'm using that approach and it seems to be fine. I do use FS twice to get unholy runs but after that I basically just spam SS every time i can and only use FS when it's the only option... getting these runes under control is a pain Cheers!

  12. #32
    UnHoly is a priority based rotation not a fixed set, the priority is.
    Drop Defile in Cool Down
    apply dots and keep them refreshed ( use Plague strike if they will fall off before you can use FS again )
    use FS to burn frost and Blood runes as well as to refresh your dots.
    use Dark transformation when ready
    use SS on UnHoly and death runes
    use Death coil on sudden doom procs or if you are over 85-90 RP, also try to weave them in when ever possible to build DT stacks.
    Use Soul reaper when the target is below 35% ( I think for Unholy its 45% but don't quote me on that )
    Use summon gargoyle when ever it is on cooldown.

    this is the general priority of unholy. more details and advanced rotation tips and info could be found on Icy-veins or maybe Elitist jerks.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    The only issue with BT is when you get that UUFFDD combo...would it even be worth using IT and spam SS then? Also goes the other way around UUDDBB. Apologies for a class question here.
    ive asked this question in 2 threads here already but it seems nobody wants to answer it, so ill try here too. The above described situation, what would be the optimal way to handle it, if it ever came up,which as im sure you know, some times does happen.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    ive asked this question in 2 threads here already but it seems nobody wants to answer it, so ill try here too. The above described situation, what would be the optimal way to handle it, if it ever came up,which as im sure you know, some times does happen.
    I have seen your question in all of those threads but I have never used BT so I can't answer :[ sorry Tachyne

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxweii View Post
    I have seen your question in all of those threads but I have never used BT so I can't answer :[ sorry Tachyne
    Its alright pal, it kinds of make sense to use 2 x festering strikes then 2 ss for the remaining 2 unholy runes but i just want to make sure.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyne View Post
    ive asked this question in 2 threads here already but it seems nobody wants to answer it, so ill try here too. The above described situation, what would be the optimal way to handle it, if it ever came up,which as im sure you know, some times does happen.
    Honestly, I would try not to get into that situation. I've switched to runic corruption with the prepatch and it works wonderfully with unholy, because it keeps the order of the runes intact while giving them a speed boost. From a practical point of view, if you get those orphaned frost runes, what I do is just kill them with FS before I get into the AE situation. If I already am in an AE situation and have not spreaded my diseases, I might consider IT to get rid of Frost. If I have my diseases spread, I just FS on the primary target for a bit of ST boost and get around to spamming BB once the picture looks like DDUUDD.

    If the AE situation is resolved too quickly to do that (<10s), it's probably not even worth worrying about those runes, if the AE situation lasts longer than that, it's probably still an irritating setup. But there you go, orphaned frost runes fuck us up. There's no good way to get out of that efficiently. And that is probably why nobody has answered you properly.

    Edit: Just musing here... if NP was a bit stronger, I might consider playing NP with Plaguebearer and end up with a Festerblight style gameplay which would pretty much eliminate those frost runes from my playstyle. Stupid idea?
    Last edited by Slant; 2014-11-24 at 11:20 AM.
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  17. #37
    if NP were stronger that might be a viable option and if you want to try it anyways go for it. Honestly don't worry if your not pushing every last point of DPS the spec can theoretically push, if you feel you like NP festerblight style then go for it. its kind of like Frost master simple, its the lowest of the 3 frost styles but people still play it cause they like it and its still viable.

  18. #38
    I was just idly speculating, thanks for the input anyway.
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  19. #39
    Video should begin filming next week when I get my new video card. I hope to have the video out by Friday 12/5 or Saturday 12/6 which I will try to include a round table discussion between all the raider DKs in our guild on how we feel the class is performing heading into HiMu.

    I was going to begin filming this week but my video card is too far gone to produce a quality video.

  20. #40
    Just a heads up that rules on where you post video's here do come into play, even here.

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