ShadowCraft Discussion Thread

[nordveien]

Combat: ShC was updated to include Jan 13 BF Multistrike hotfix, yet it shows Multistrike as by far the weakest stat at 2+ targets. This is a significant discrepancy with SimC which shows multistrike roughly as strong as haste on 2-5 targets.

Another thing, not sure if related or not, but ShC dps changes when I change "Number of Boss Adds" to something other than zero even if "Blade Flurry" switch is still off. That probably shouldn't be happening.

[Pathal]

Combat: ShC was updated to include Jan 13 BF Multistrike hotfix, yet it shows Multistrike as by far the weakest stat at 2+ targets. This is a significant discrepancy with SimC which shows multistrike roughly as strong as haste on 2-5 targets.

Another thing, not sure if related or not, but ShC dps changes when I change "Number of Boss Adds" to something other than zero even if "Blade Flurry" switch is still off. That probably shouldn't be happening.

For the first point, are you talking about the UI or the engine? The mmo-mumble UI wasn't updated. You can check the engine version on github (https://github.com/dazer/ShadowCraft..._init__.py#L34), and the UI's engine version on the advanced tab. When it says 1.084 it will reflect the ms hotfix.

I'll look into the second thing. -- UPDATE: Technically the number of adds should affect DPS when you have have Lemon Zest selected. The way the talent works is that it gives you a hidden buff (that I believe lasts 12s) that triggers the LZ passive. So if you swap targets you should be able to maintain 2 stacks. If I'm understanding this mechanic wrong, then correct me, however until then I see it as working as intended.

[nordveien]

Thank you for the quick response and for the clarification. I was talking about the UI and it's indeed not yet updated. My mistake, I thought your commits were being pushed to UI near instantly.

Regarding the second thing, I did indeed have Lemon Zest selected. It comes as a bit of a surprise that Combat without Blade Flurry but with LZ is modeled as switching between targets when 2-3 targets are present. Honestly, the thought didn't cross my mind until now that Combat can "cleave" without BF for ST gain. For my toon, it shows about 800 "single target" dps increase over 31k base which is nothing to sneeze at, so it would be very interesting to learn the details, under what assumptions do we get such an increase? Would you be so kind to expand on that? Does it simply switch between 2 (or 3) targets on some sort of cooldown? I assume the effect on dps that the resulting LZ stacks have would depend on when exactly the swap is happening, whether it's during AR or BL or not. I'm not sure whether ShadowCraft just averages the effect from those over the fight's length or treats them more specifically. I feel a little foolish asking that, but does it take melee swings reset and all that follows into account?

Just to make sure, when BF is enabled in ShadowCraft, it doesn't try to switch targets?

[fierydemise]

Thank you for the quick response and for the clarification. I was talking about the UI and it's indeed not yet updated. My mistake, I thought your commits were being pushed to UI near instantly.

Regarding the second thing, I did indeed have Lemon Zest selected. It comes as a bit of a surprise that Combat without Blade Flurry but with LZ is modeled as switching between targets when 2-3 targets are present. Honestly, the thought didn't cross my mind until now that Combat can "cleave" without BF for ST gain. For my toon, it shows about 800 "single target" dps increase over 31k base which is nothing to sneeze at, so it would be very interesting to learn the details, under what assumptions do we get such an increase? Would you be so kind to expand on that? Does it simply switch between 2 (or 3) targets on some sort of cooldown? I assume the effect on dps that the resulting LZ stacks have would depend on when exactly the swap is happening, whether it's during AR or BL or not. I'm not sure whether ShadowCraft just averages the effect from those over the fight's length or treats them more specifically. I feel a little foolish asking that, but does it take melee swings reset and all that follows into account?

Just to make sure, when BF is enabled in ShadowCraft, it doesn't try to switch targets?

https://github.com/dazer/ShadowCraft...nit__.py#L1330

When you increase the number of boss targets while LZ is selected ShC simply multiples energy regen by the LZ modifier, it does not currently attempt to model how you would achieve that.

[Unrully]

Posted this on the EJ thread, but not sure if that's checked anymore (their forum seems kind of dead?) so I'll copy/paste my post here as well:

Heyyo,

I think I might have found a bug somewhere in the Sub modeling. I was making 680/heroic BRF BiS lists so I could pull stat weights, and something odd with the weapon enchants. The auto enchant was flipping between double multistrike and double shattered hand. But when I manually adjust the enchants, it comes to this:

http://i.gyazo.com/c61e81621895fda497567b3ae8c091ec.png

One multi one bleed and it's at 36389.5 DPS. BUT, when I swap the multi enchant to mastery:

http://i.gyazo.com/3949798b8a26be37fe1f395ed6635195.png

Brings the DPS to 36400.7 - You can see the stat weights with both enchants on are showing Multistrike *well* ahead of Mastery.

Also, in full 680, Assassination modeling is at 36052.1 which seems high in comparison to Subt, because I thought Subt was a solid couple thousand DPS ahead of Mut in sim. I could be wrong on that bit, though.

[Mac223]

The auto-gem/enchant function is simpler than the full blown machinery of SC. It 'just' compares EP values, and misses all the higher order stuff. So at the end of the day you should trust the DPS number over the auto-gem/enchant function when it comes to comparing one piece of gear to another. What you should not trust the DPS number for is specc and real world comparisons. SC was made for gear comparison, not DPS prediction.

[Hamel]

Is it just me that's not seeing alchemy stone of fire in the list of trinkets?

[shaithis]

Question - why is Shadowcraft still preferring Haste to Multistrike for Combat with Blade Flurry + multiple adds selected?

[fierydemise]

Question - why is Shadowcraft still preferring Haste to Multistrike for Combat with Blade Flurry + multiple adds selected?

Because ShC believes its better. The whole reason we build tools like ShC and SimC is because stat weights vary as a function of gear, no single piece of advice about gearing generalizes to all gear sets.

What it looks like is basic synergistic stat scaling in action, yes MS tends to be better than haste on multiple targets but you have so much MS and so little haste (more than twice as much MS than haste before considering your trinket) that the value of haste increases. You can check the result with SimC if you don't believe it but given the degree of stat imbalance on display this result isn't particularly surprising.

[Aeolla]

So with my 4 piece at 682, my combat is now 2k up single target (blade flurry is off) over my sub. Have full haste enchants/gems. Prior my sub was higher. I'm not saying it's wrong but I'm wondering if someone could chime in and explain as to why? I know our 4 piece is strong but dang...

[PessimiStick]

So with my 4 piece at 682, my combat is now 2k up single target (blade flurry is off) over my sub. Have full haste enchants/gems. Prior my sub was higher. I'm not saying it's wrong but I'm wondering if someone could chime in and explain as to why? I know our 4 piece is strong but dang...

ShC does not compare between specs, stop using it that way.

[Aeolla]

Thanks for that extremely useful information.

[ymirsson]

Thanks for that extremely useful information.

As useful as your comparison. Have you tried simming your char in Simulationcraft?

[Deleted]

I'm getting the Error contacting backend engine.

Anyone else?

[Feali]

Same for me.

[Imotbh]

Am I right assuming SC will automatically be updated when ilvl change is live?

[dinth]

It doesn't seem to be updated yet. Has the original ilvl stuff in the dropdown menus or whatever. That, and the wow armory still has the old values as well.

[Unrully]

It pulls from the armory, so until Blizz fixes their end, it'll stay that way.

[thottstation]

Any way to force Shadowcraft to show my updated portrait (top right)? Despite all my efforts, it's still showing me in my SoO gear.

[Scharin]

Any way to force Shadowcraft to show my updated portrait (top right)? Despite all my efforts, it's still showing me in my SoO gear.

At least you got a pic


on a more serious note, tried clearing browser cache?