What exactly is wrong with Personal Loot?

[OrcsRLame]

This is fucking retarded. And I reserve that kind of language only for things that I think are truly stupid. Yeah, it sucks not getting anything. It's even worse though when bad players, or worse, ninjas, win your shit. Group loot in the dungeon finder is fucking cancer. I normally agree with almost everything Blizzard does, and this off the charts with stupid magnitude.

[Gihelle]

How does the loot system change anything? RNG can just as easily make that exact same scenario happen with Need/Greed system.

I've hit that scenario with alts and it's honestly not as bad as not seeing loot drop AT ALL.

[Cavarly]

i liked the loot system...

[foxHeart]

"There isn't a YOU WON window popping up when I win something! So it makes loot less special to me!"

That is probably the most common reason why people don't like personal loot, whether people admit it or not. If there was a fucking notification, people wouldn't care. But hey, crybabies crying over absolutely nothing tangible or logical got their way. Doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not.

[Deleted]

i liked personal, causes alot less rage. now that shitter on the same loot as you is going to win it even tho you are out preforming them by miles. the joy.

[ablib]

I thought Blizzard's explanation for why it was being reverted was self explanatory and made sense.

The problem is psychological. There is no way a crowd that uses such terms as "cry babies, retards, fucking, etc" would EVER be intelligent enough to grasp this. I sometimes feel Blizzard has to explain their thought processes to kindergarteners.

I expect Blizzard will do what they said they will do, bring back personal loot, while still keeping the RPG feeling of having loot drops, mean something. The current system is far from perfect, and can be made better.

[Deleted]

What is "wrong" with personal loot: people with low IQ can't comprehend that getting no drop from the boss is the same as the boss dropping nothing for their class. As a result, they convince themselves that they get way less loot than before. Commence hysterical whining to Blizzard and poof, one of the best changes in recent years reverted after a week because idiots can't understand the system.

[arantes]

I've hit that scenario with alts and it's honestly not as bad as not seeing loot drop AT ALL.

Would you be ok with personal loot if the same sort of window popped up to show the loot that dropped and other people got, instead of just the chat notification?

Statistics wise personal loot is as good and possibly better than need before greed, so the only problem is one of perception.

[Rixis]

The problem we'll have now is that people will take the items that are upgrades for you, either because they can, or because they have slightly more optimal stats for them, so you're gonna see that nice shiny item and be all like .. YAY !! ... then you lose the roll

[Sesto]

I feel like they could have just improved personal loot system by making it more obvious loot dropped.

Similar to how an announcement appears if your quest item was upgraded to rare/epic, it'd be the same if any loot dropped from the boss for anyone in the party. That way even if you don't get loot, it still retains some of the psychological aspect of feeling rewarded for downing the boss. Sure, you might not have gotten loot, but that druid and the healer got some, so maybe you'll get some next time. And yes: you can still see loot in the chat window dropping even without this, but it still isn't as exciting (for some) as seeing that piece of loot appear on your screen. This solution would fix that.

They could have also added some bonus if the bosses didn't drop any loot -- maybe a small amount of garrison resources. Or something similar to a salvage box with a chance for follower gear/greens.

Honestly it feels like Blizzard just gave up without thinking of a solution to improve personal loot for LFD.

[Triptych]

Well, Blizzard has stated that they're going to try and "improve" the Personal Loot System and return to it at a later point.

I don't really see what was so wrong with it that it warranted going back to Need/Greed, but hey, I'm not a game designer so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Little bit disappointed though. I think it's a really nice system, perfect for random and anonymous groups.

[crakerjack]

Need for greed is the best IMO. You see what drops and you get a rough estimate on what drops frequently and what doesn't. I love seeing gear drop regardless if I can use it. You kill a boss and the first thing your mind goes towards is "What did it drop?" If I had to loot a boss and think "I may or may not see something" then i'd have less off an urge to kill the boss. It doesn't make much of a difference, but it's enough of a difference to point it out.

[crunk]

i think the real answer has nothing to do with the community, blizzard could have forced it if they wanted, there were the same complaints about DS LFR.


i think the real answer is people were getting wayyyy too much loot - i've gotten around 40-50 pieces in the last couple of days. full 630 ilvl for 3 specs + enchanting mats to last me probably into BRF (and im not even an enchanter).

[Alvito]

The biggest issue I've heard is that people are getting discouraged because they don't "see" the loot dropping, even if its not for them.

Old way - 3 items drop. None of it for player A. Players B, C, and D get loot. Player A sees the items dropping, and remains encouraged that some will drop for him eventually.
New way - 3 items drop. None of it for Player A. Players B, C, and D get loot. Player A doesn't see any loot drop, and is left to wonder if any loot drops, and if any loot WILL drop, ever, for anyone, and starts to freak out about it.

Seriously, I think this is the mentality. It's the mystery of not knowing who got what, and that leads to assuming nobody got anything.

Yup people are idiots and so resistant to change that even though loot is coming out faster then it does with 1 item per boss, they cry.

[xenogear3]

This is NOT psychological thing.

First, personal loot doesn't give more loot.
Then, when it assigns to people, it assigns randomly.

For example, 4 fully geared + 1 new guy.
The whole dungeon drops 3 gear (1 strength, 1 agi and 1 int gear).
The new guy gets 1 gear via the Need/Greed system per run. If someone rolls need, his chance is 3/5.

Now with the personal loot, his chance is always 3/5.

[Xaelai]

Would you be ok with personal loot if the same sort of window popped up to show the loot that dropped and other people got, instead of just the chat notification?

Statistics wise personal loot is as good and possibly better than need before greed, so the only problem is one of perception.

What he was trying to say, is that a lot of times, bosses will drop NOTHING for all 5 people.

When that happens, NOBODY wins anything. It makes the whole boss kill a total and complete waste of time.

I have seen several boss kills where NOBODY in the group got anything at all and it felt like a complete waste of time. Why did we even bother killing the boss when nobody got a reward from killing the boss?

Killing Bosses should equal someone getting a reward.

Problem is, there's no guarantee of anything dropping and no Failbags to make sure you got SOMETHING out of the kill.

[Aquamonkey]

This is NOT psychological thing.

First, personal loot doesn't give more loot.
Then, when it assigns to people, it assigns randomly.

For example, 4 fully geared + 1 new guy.
The whole dungeon drops 3 gear (1 strength, 1 agi and 1 int gear).
The new guy gets 1 gear via the Need/Greed system per run. If someone rolls need, his chance is 3/5.

Now with the personal loot, his chance is always 3/5.

That's not how math works. If every1 else is fully geared, that "new guy" has 100% chance at loot in the Need/Greed system, assuming those specific drops. But you aren't balancing it out with the chance that something useless for the "new guy" drops, which makes it equivalent to personal loot.

Then if you change the scenario to where everyone wants loot, you then introduce competition into Need/Greed that reduces chances for loot below personal loot.

[Deleted]

I feel like they could have just improved personal loot system by making it more obvious loot dropped.

Similar to how an announcement appears if your quest item was upgraded to rare/epic, it'd be the same if any loot dropped from the boss for anyone in the party. That way even if you don't get loot, it still retains some of the psychological aspect of feeling rewarded for downing the boss. Sure, you might not have gotten loot, but that druid and the healer got some, so maybe you'll get some next time. And yes: you can still see loot in the chat window dropping even without this, but it still isn't as exciting (for some) as seeing that piece of loot appear on your screen. This solution would fix that.

They could have also added some bonus if the bosses didn't drop any loot -- maybe a small amount of garrison resources. Or something similar to a salvage box with a chance for follower gear/greens.

Honestly it feels like Blizzard just gave up without thinking of a solution to improve personal loot for LFD.

Have to agree the personal loot was awesome tho sometimes frustrating after not getting loot for 10+ bosses then getting an item that's worse compared to what you have.

It provided so much benefit allowing you to queue with people needing the same item as you, even if you couldn't fill up a group.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

The problem we'll have now is that people will take the items that are upgrades for you, either because they can, or because they have slightly more optimal stats for them, so you're gonna see that nice shiny item and be all like .. YAY !! ... then you lose the roll

That's exactly right.

I want personal loot to be the system in all non premade groups. So I'm going to do as much as I can to make it suck for every group I'm in with Need before Greed, until Blizzard changes it back.

"Be the change you want to happen."

[Mifuyne]

Goodbye massive amounts of loot.