I love playing Rogue, but....

[willtron]

Zergfests like Ashran and TM v SS have made me realise how crap it is being melee, and how much of a natural advantage you have as ranged.

[Phurox]

You always has a huge advantage as range.

Take out the healers fast and die. That is the Rogue life.

[Rucati]

The game isn't balanced around this type of PvP is why.

Go into arenas and you'll see how absurdly powerful Rogues are, along with most other melee classes at the moment.

[heinz0r]

Just saying... melees are only feral, rogue and warrior now. DK and Pala are basically ranged classes since mop and the only true melee classes left have so many gap closers and damage prevention mechanisms that saying ranged have the advantage is just one big pile of dung. If ranged had such an advantage, how come you see arond 70-80% melee classes in bgs now and almost no casters other than healers? Clearly because ranged got such an advantage!

[Mihalik]

Zergfests like Ashran and TM v SS have made me realise how crap it is being melee, and how much of a natural advantage you have as ranged.

You just realized this? Anywhere outside Arenas Melee has it uphill in the snow without shoes both way. In Arenas you get shoes.

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warrior

Die by the Sword (which gives 100% PARRY and 20% damage reduction, tho I can't really parry spells last I checked) on a 2 min cooldown and Spell Reflect on a 30 second cooldown (Shield Barrier is a thing, but due to the rage requirement you rarely get to use it for much). Tell me more about all those damage prevention mechanisms.

[dak1]

Old AV did a better job of providing a number of side objectives that melee (especially stealth) could engage in away from the main zerg that could significantly impact the battle (like capping a tower/gy behind enemy lines).

Ashran does not have sufficient side objectives. It has announced events that bring a smaller open area zerg to an area, and artifact collecting, which is useless when you already have everything summoned, which can be quite often.

The Gladiators are also a terrible way of enforcing a scripted encounter. PvP should be less scripted and rely less on insanely powerful NPCs.

[Rezark]

As a WW monk zergfests are definitely boring, I always play melee but after a couple days grinding pandas in Ashran its the first time ive even considered a ranged class haha. All I do in Ashran on my monk is SEF the enemy main group and RJW the shit out of them. Most the time it pushes people back because they have no idea wtf is going on lol.

[TylerWildstar]

As a gladi warrior you have:
Last Stand: +30% HP for 15 seconds - 3min CD
Shield Wall: 40% damage reduction for 8 seconds - 3min CD
Demoralizing Shout: 20% reduced damage dealt for 8 seconds to everyone within 10 yards - 1min CD
Overall more HP and armor due to the spec and the shield.
Blood Craze: 3% healing over 3 seconds, triggered by autohit multistrikes.

Can't use Last Stand or demo shout in Glad stance. you also lose your tank passives (re: more HP and armor) when in gladiator. Glad also loses defensive stance, because you can't change stances in combat anymore. Overall, Glad is about as squishy, if not more, than fury/arms.

[Strakha]

Just saying... melees are only feral, rogue and warrior now. DK and Pala are basically ranged classes since mop and the only true melee classes left have so many gap closers and damage prevention mechanisms that saying ranged have the advantage is just one big pile of dung. If ranged had such an advantage, how come you see arond 70-80% melee classes in bgs now and almost no casters other than healers? Clearly because ranged got such an advantage!

because ranged is boring and basically the same playstyle for every ranged spec and class. much rather play rogue and sneak around and be shady.

[Alski]

You can't really change this though, unless you give melees the avoidance passive in pvp or something like that to reduce aoe damage, and even then you can't get into the zerg as you'll simply be focused down.

At one point feral druids could spec for 30% reduced aoe damage (was tied to another decent talent). Was fun being the last one left alive

[Mihalik]

As a arms/fury warrior you have:
Die by the Sword: Doubled parry chance (not set to 100%) and 30% damage reduction for 8 seconds - 2min CD
Defensive Stance: 20% damage reduction, you're pretty much always in it unless nothing hits you (hard)
Rallying Cry: +15% HP for 10 seconds - 3min CD, good to couple with:
Enraged Regeneration: 10% healing instant, 20% over 5 seconds - 1min CD


As a gladi warrior you have:
Last Stand: +30% HP for 15 seconds - 3min CD
Shield Wall: 40% damage reduction for 8 seconds - 3min CD
Demoralizing Shout: 20% reduced damage dealt for 8 seconds to everyone within 10 yards - 1min CD
Overall more HP and armor due to the spec and the shield.
Blood Craze: 3% healing over 3 seconds, triggered by autohit multistrikes.

All specs also have Spell Reflect and Shield Barrier (which uses a ton of rage to absorb an autohit worth of damage...if you're lucky and the mage didn't crit. yeah, don't use it. ^^)

1, Mentioned Die by the Sword. Effective against melee, not so much against range.
2, As Fury you can't sit in Defensive Stance. You simply don't have the rage to do any sort of serious damage. Actually you can't do any sort of serious damage anyways because you just don't have jack shit worth of crit. Especially you won't have Rage to get your Shield Barrier back up, once it got eaten. Alas...can't generate rage at range.
3, Rallying Cry is neither a damage prevention or reduction mechanism.
4, Enraged Regen is not a damage prevention or reduction mechanism, it's a heal. Granted coupled with Rallying Cry is helps you get back up once, but in a place like Ashran if you got low you will die anyways.
!!!Fury is useless for PvP!!!

Glad Stance has none of the damage reduction of Prot, has no access to Defensive Stance or Block, Blood Craze almost NEVER procs simply because nobody has enough Multistrike yet and it also requires you to be hitting someone, so again it is utterly useless against range. Glad Warr is squishy is fuck, the one thing that it has going for it over Arms and Fury is that you can actually do some damage with it and generate rage with it, something that you just can't do with Fury and in the case of Arms, only if you abuse multi target Rend.

[fwc577]

Zergfests like Ashran and TM v SS have made me realise how crap it is being melee, and how much of a natural advantage you have as ranged.

Totally why I'm leveling my hunter so I can get the PvP Nemesis titles in Ashran (which I'm hoping are account wide)

[Kaustos]

It wouldn't be half as bad if stealth didn't constantly drop when you're within 100 yards of a fight. Or you know, just for no reason at all and never entering combat or being near anyone. I wish that epic ashran book made stealth only break when you attack or something.

[fwc577]

It wouldn't be half as bad if stealth didn't constantly drop when you're within 100 yards of a fight. Or you know, just for no reason at all and never entering combat or being near anyone. I wish that epic ashran book made stealth only break when you attack or something.

There is an item people can buy from faction vendors that knocks stealth off within a certain range I believe. I was trying rogue and druid on Beta and remember that thing pissing me off because someone who usually hangs in the back tends to always drop one.

[lolpve]

Rogues are pretty good in TM vs SS, you just have to be sneaky and opportunistic. It's actually very very hard to kill a rogue in that bg if he doesn't want to die.

Ashran is another story. All I do is stack in the pack and spam shuriken toss for broken bones. Ashran is pretty much dogshit though and I dont think I'll participate in it even if I have the gladiator thing.

[Vokal]

The game isn't balanced around this type of PvP is why.

Go into arenas and you'll see how absurdly powerful Rogues are, along with most other melee classes at the moment.

What this guy said.

Rogues are and always have been insanely overpowered in any form of relevant pvp.

[Thelxi]

Ashran and the new BG, coupled with the fact that rogue burst is low in current gear, made me level up my alts. Multi dotting and healing is so much fun in Ashran and TM vs SS.

[Deleted]

Ashran is pretty funny as a rogue. You just need to be careful and control what's happening around if you want to kill like monster.

[Romeo83x]

Can't use Last Stand or demo shout in Glad stance. you also lose your tank passives (re: more HP and armor) when in gladiator. Glad also loses defensive stance, because you can't change stances in combat anymore. Overall, Glad is about as squishy, if not more, than fury/arms.

I play gladiator stance war in pvp and everything you just said is crap.

You CAN use demo shout and last stand in gladiator stance. Extra armor from shield makes a huge difference and overall fury/arms are garbage in survivability compared to gladiator.

Also the shield wall has 2 minutes cooldown, a mistake in the original post.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Take out the healers fast and die. That is the Rogue life.

*snickers*

Rogues are very important in Ashram! I've found that they are crucial to capping the mage towers (by assassinating the guys camping on top) and wresting control of a bonus objective away from the enemy. A couple of rogues were able to wipe a group who were trying to kill the Ogre King, allowing our group to come in and claim him


The rogues life isn't about front lines or zergs; it's about surgically removing the baddies who have to go.

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1, Mentioned Die by the Sword. Effective against melee, not so much against range.
2, As Fury you can't sit in Defensive Stance. You simply don't have the rage to do any sort of serious damage. Actually you can't do any sort of serious damage anyways because you just don't have jack shit worth of crit. Especially you won't have Rage to get your Shield Barrier back up, once it got eaten. Alas...can't generate rage at range.
3, Rallying Cry is neither a damage prevention or reduction mechanism.
4, Enraged Regen is not a damage prevention or reduction mechanism, it's a heal. Granted coupled with Rallying Cry is helps you get back up once, but in a place like Ashran if you got low you will die anyways.
!!!Fury is useless for PvP!!!

Glad Stance has none of the damage reduction of Prot, has no access to Defensive Stance or Block, Blood Craze almost NEVER procs simply because nobody has enough Multistrike yet and it also requires you to be hitting someone, so again it is utterly useless against range. Glad Warr is squishy is fuck, the one thing that it has going for it over Arms and Fury is that you can actually do some damage with it and generate rage with it, something that you just can't do with Fury and in the case of Arms, only if you abuse multi target Rend.

Glad wars are OP as #@$%.