SS vs. TM, Thoughts?

[heinz0r]

Nope, world pvp existed because the mindset of players was different at the time. The people playing at that time came from games where you had alot of open world pvp or they simply did not play any mmorpg before and just WANTED to whack the other faction wherever they found them. You also had no bgs, thats true, but there was still alot of open world pvp after they introduced bgs.

The biggest problem with the player right now is the "no reward = no thanks" mentality. Simply doing something because its fun, even if there is no point to it, this just does not work for people anymore after 10 years of wow and being conditioned into waiting in your main city until the queue pops up and only ever leaving that city when you might need to farm some minerals or herbs or do some dailies. Thats what has happened over the last few expansions. You dont see people out in the open world anymore and naturally there is next to no open world fighting going on anymore.

And btw, world pvp rarely ever means zerg vs zerg. Those massive battles happened, but they were nothing that regularly happened. World pvp usually was smaller scale. This wrong perception of world pvp being massive battles is one of the problems that might explain why Blizzard has no clue on how to set up something that people would like. The fun and dynamic nature of world pvp resulted from having smaller groups of players gather up over time and fight others over a rather large area in a zone and only loosely working together. This is where wow pvp also has most of its strengths. Once there are too many players, all of that goes away and ends up in a big laggy mess where the group with the most AOE wins. And this has always been shit. You can see it right now in the abomination of TM vs SS aswell as in Ashran. Everything that happens near the zerg vs zerg is completely useless and feels pointless.

The only fights that are interesting are the scattered fights away from the action there. Thats the only reason I actually still go into Ashran, because there you sometimes get fights that are fun, with people adding in the middle of the fight, changing the whole direction of how the fight is going down, then all of a sudden you get 1-2 reinforcements from somewhere helping you out close before death. And all of that has nothing to do with 60 ppl standing in one spot spamming AOE dmg and heals. I still hope that someday Blizzard realizes this, but right now I dont think this will actually ever happen...

There are many ppl who may remember some big fights back in the days and those ppl are probably who just remember those fights and stored them in their memory as "this was world pvp" because these were the only fights they really were part of. The players who were pvping ALOT back then usually dont see these zergfests as the real pvp, because it was a rare sight and usually ended up crashing the server anyways and while fun for a while, the real action usually happened between those events by attacking people on the roads, creating kill zones with small groups infront of Blackrock mountain where you could kill off entire raid groups that trickled into the entrance, only to result in very fun battles over time. Or the chillwind flight point at the edge of eastern plaguelands near Andorhal where we had so many fun fights. And these fights at that flight point were often resulting in skirmishes that carried on over down to Southshore vs Tarren mill, because alliance people would not fly into Chillwind but rather just to Southshore to not get picked off one by one and instead ride all the way up to Chillwind, and after they beat us with a big army there, they would come down to Tarren Mill and mayhem would sometimes break out all over the zone, sometimes lasting for hours, sometimes just for a few fights.

THAT _WAS_ WORLD PVP and I am sad to see that something like this will probably never happen in this game again just because ppl dont move a finger anymore if it doesnt give them a reward or lousy achievement

[Rucati]

It was fun for like 10 minutes, then it got dull and repetitive.

The only thing that made the original SS vs TM fun was grinding for rank, but in a BG all you get is a small amount of honor, so it's not nearly as exciting.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Nope, world pvp existed because the mindset of players was different at the time.

Yes, because that's all they had. Once other, much more fun, options became available it died. Rightfully so, because it was boring. It was stupid. It was pointless.

But that's all there was.

[Raugnaut]

Its great for farming the HK achieves.

Also nostalgia.

[Hardkorr]

THAT _WAS_ WORLD PVP and I am sad to see that something like this will probably never happen in this game again just because ppl dont move a finger anymore if it doesnt give them a reward or lousy achievement

To me, world pvp was killing guys who tried farming mats while I was naked. Man, baseline dmg for rogues made for some hilariously good times.

[Deleted]

It died when cross realm BGs popped up but to say WPVP was boring is a filthy lie. BGs took over because they provided more honour, they actually offered rewards outside of just owning people, then there was exp since you could hand in insignias, then tokens. There's also the convenience side of things, but to say WPVP was "boring" makes anyone come across as someone that's v. bitter they got ganked a few times.

A very large proportion of the community enjoyed it, any populated PVP server had it in abundance until cross realm BGs killed it. The Eastern Plaguelands, Blackrock Mountain, Hillsbrad and plenty of other areas.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

It died when cross realm BGs popped up but to say WPVP was boring is a filthy lie.

1) It died before there were battlegroups. Good job at proving you weren't even around then.
2) No, it's not a lie.

A very large proportion of the community enjoyed it, any populated PVP server had it in abundance until cross realm BGs killed it.

If they enjoyed it it wouldn't have fucking died.

[Gigana]

Played one match, loved it. Just a big massive battle, like in a movie or something.

I feel it can (and should) be implemented as a regular BG. With the following changes:

- create a defensive bubble around graveyards that's impassable for the opposing faction, enabling teams to rez safely and to prevent GY camping

- lower the necessary kills to 200, to prevent drawn-out games where one side is getting farmed, make battles short & sweet

- add achievements to make it more appealing to players

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If they enjoyed it it wouldn't have fucking died.

Bullcrap.

Blizzard killed world PvP because their servers couldn't handle it. They deliberately implemented Dishonorable Kills as punishment for engaging in it, added tons of overpowered stealth-detecting guards to cities, made sanctuary zones like Shattrah where you couldn't attack enemy players, made battleground/arena rewards give tons more honor, and just overall did everything in their power to make wpvp as uninviting as possible. Special mention goes to flying mounts, too.

PvP-ers love world pvp. The moment they get any incentive to engage in it - such as the awesome blood coin farm on timeless isle - they happily do it all day long. Because world pvp is a million times more exciting than some instanced capture the flag mini-game.

[Rucati]

PvP-ers love world pvp. The moment they get any incentive to engage in it - such as the awesome blood coin farm on timeless isle - they happily do it all day long. Because world pvp is a million times more exciting than some instanced capture the flag mini-game.

This is far from true. Look at something like Halaa in Burning Crusade, it was fun for like five minutes and then nobody bothered with it ever again, because world PvP is a joke. It has nothing to do with flying mounts, or rewards, or anything like that. It's simply a numbers game.

I could get 4 friends and go do world PvP, it would be us 5 against 20 Horde, no matter how good we are we can't win that. Get a raid of 40 people, go into Orgrimmar, there are 100 Horde, we can't win that. World PvP is only fun if it's equal in terms of size, which it *never* is, which makes it no fun. The best PvPers in the world can't win when they're outnumbered 3 to 1. Which is why real PvPers stick to arenas where it's fair and teams are even.

And honestly, I hardly ever saw anyone farming coins on Timeless Isle, there were like 4-5 people there on my high pop realm usually doing it. As someone who enjoys PvP, in fact it's the only reason I play this game, I'm more than happy with world PvP not existing. It serves no purpose when more fun and balanced options are available.

[Wildtree]

I've done the event on release date. One attempt, and won it, by a rather high margin of nearly 400 pts.
No, it was not a zerg party. We've quickly interfered with that idea. Horde tried to do it, and we made em pay for it.
It's possible to counter that strat and turn it against the enemy.

[Gigana]

This is far from true. Look at something like Halaa in Burning Crusade, it was fun for like five minutes and then nobody bothered with it ever again, because world PvP is a joke. It has nothing to do with flying mounts, or rewards, or anything like that. It's simply a numbers game.

Halaa wasn't popular because it was boring-ass mechanic where you had to ride flypaths and bomb pve guards more than fight actual players. Also, it had no rewards except for a crappy mount nobody liked.

I've been world pvp-ing since vanilla and your numbers are totally out of whack. Yes, occasionally it's going to be 20 horde vs 5 alliance, but 9 times out of 10 the numbers are going to be somewhat close and/or if you're outnumbered you're simply going to attack somewhere else. Oftentimes even if you're outnumbered, you can slaughter a bunch of them and/or get away because players in world pvp aren't usually of the highest caliber. Essentially, anything can happen, and death usually means something in that it requires a corpse run and a non-safe rez, making the entire thing feel a lot more exciting.

I've no idea what server you were on, but on Stormscale we always had a bunch of people coin-farming (usually I was one of them) until they nerfed the cd to 1 hour. Like, we literally had groups of 20+ coin farmers slaughtering pve-ers at Huolon. You also had parties of 2-3 coin farmers roaming around. It often caused PvE-ers to mobilize against us, which led to world pvp battles all over the island, where survival (due to censer cd) was more important than getting kills. It was the most exciting feature of the entire SoO patch and I wish it came back somehow.

World pvp isn't about being balanced or having fair numbers or being ready, it's about the entire "it's a jungle out there" feeling it, and only it, can provide in WoW.

[Fahrenheit]

Kinda sucks as a melee. I suppose it's a fucking blast for ranged classes though. I did it once, we won, I ranked all the way to Grand Marshall (didn't die once the whole match) and then cycled back around to Private. I thought here was an achievement for getting to GM/HW?

[Hanto]

It was fun the first time I played. Did it with a few friends and that was cool, but we lost. Second time the nostalgia wore off and we were just trying to get the title without making the same mistakes as last time.

Overall feeling: It was cool back then, as simplistic as everything was. Now, however, it's a whole 'nother game and feels awkward doing it.

[rda]

Thoughts on SS vs TM:

It's stupid. (Got the FoS the first time if you are wondering.)

No other thoughts.

[Bertimus]

My tinfoil hat : The 10th anniversary events are there to utterly crush Vanilla nostalgics who whine all the time about how "good ol' days" are better.

I wouldn't even be able to participate in this game any more if things still worked the way they did in Vanilla/BC.

Remember how long leveling used to take? And the initial gear grind to do anything? Having to get keyed for instances, etc. Just not possible to have a family or any other hobbies lol.

But a lot of us are nostalgic because vanilla/bc were our high school and college years, and we had the time to do that stuff, and the sense of accomplishment was a real thing. Having titles meant something. Walking around with "Champion of the Naaru" made you a badass for a while. Having hand of a'dal made you a badass among badasses. We miss that stuff, because it was fun, but we don't actually want to have to do it again, lol.

[Duronos]

Yes, because that's all they had. Once other, much more fun, options became available it died. Rightfully so, because it was boring. It was stupid. It was pointless.

But that's all there was.

Really? I play on a Vanilla server occasionally and it's fun because it's completely spontaneous. Out of nowhere your friend or guild will mention that a huge battle is happening in so and so, it wasn't planned it just happened and that's what made it awesome.

[Saverem]

Just don't do them. They will only be here for like a month or so during the 10th anni celebrations.

I did it once to get the achievement and then never returned.

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Really? I play on a Vanilla server occasionally and it's fun because it's completely spontaneous. Out of nowhere your friend or guild will mention that a huge battle is happening in so and so, it wasn't planned it just happened and that's what made it awesome.

This is also true. The BG versions is FORCED PvP. They put 40 v 40 and a limit of 300 kills. When it happens naturally, it's A LOT more fun. Plus it's not contained to an area nor is there the pressure of "OMG MUST REACH 300 KILLS FIRST SO WE CAN WIN". XR and SS PvP was a lot more fun in Vanilla than this. I have fond memories.

[Drusin]

Really? I play on a Vanilla server occasionally and it's fun because it's completely spontaneous. Out of nowhere your friend or guild will mention that a huge battle is happening in so and so, it wasn't planned it just happened and that's what made it awesome.

I couldn't do random I'm always busy especially at the start of an expansion.

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I did it once to get the achievement and then never returned.

There should be a poll for people that did this lol.

[Morbownz]

I haven't tried SS Vs TM, I have tried MC. LFR MC is just awful. I raided MC not too long ago on a private realm and the experience was completely different, which left me wondering what exactly were Blizzard trying to capture here. I didn't feel nostalgic about the experience I just forced myself to complete it so that I'd never have to return.

[Phookah]

It's garbage.