After succeeding in a few challenge mode fights with disc..

[Deleted]

..I've no idea why people go with that clunky mechanic called CoW. It stops you from playing properly since there is no time for extra pw:s, no time for raid/group healing while that slow spell is taking a century to cast. Sure, if a single tank, a single player is dying from a single attack, it might be a niche, but I see no viability for almost all, to not say all real fights.

Has anyone even made the math for it? Is it even higher HPS than just dropping a critted PoH? Or a critted flash heal and a pw:s?

It just seems so inadequate to compete with the regular flow of disc healing in most real situations.

[Corpseflower]

I just completed the daily for Skyreach at ilvl 622 and without having my gear maximised as I have taken any upgrade I could possibly get my hands on (still have my legendary cloak and a mythic chest piece from Soo), so not sure how much this will count for as I am sure being ilvl 630 would have more crit to work with, but I tried with and without CoW and every time I didn't have CoW rolling on the tank (guardian druid), he just seemed to die really fast. I was able to keep up on the damage with the rest of the party for the most part(granted, we were doing careful pulls, etc, so I am mainly just referring to bosses), but anything but CoW and I was flailing moreso. It does feel very clunky and awkward at times, but I really feel at my ilvl at least, it is definitely what is keeping the tank from dying so it isn't as useless as everyone makes it out to be.

[thsoern]

CoW feels amazing in CM dungeons (for me atleast). Tanks getting a lot of dmg, groupwide dmg is not that often. Dunno, but CoW is by far the best 100 talent

[Overdispersion]

No, we just like its animation.

Critted PoH? wtf? Why would I waste my crit on PoH for tank healing? And why are you even comparing it to PW:S?

[Deleted]

If your tank requires a flash heal to crit he is probably incompetent to be honest. A PoH can do around 250K healing when you really need it. So I really don't get your reluctance in recognizing its power.

It makes me think you don't know this class at all if you dismiss a PoH critting.

[anon5123]

.It stops you from playing properly since there is no time for extra pw:s, no time for raid/group healing while that slow spell is taking a century to cast.

It literally has the same cast time as Heal.

CoW is great because it stacks. What other spell can you use to consistently get a 150k+ shield stacked up on the tank?

Like...boss stops attacking for 2-3 seconds to cast something? If you're spamming Heal, the tank sits at full health. If you're spamming CoW, you're stacking a bigger and bigger shield on him.

I have no idea why people keep hating on CoW so much. I can't see how people play Disc in 5mans without it. It's easily the best tank-healing spell in the game.

[Deleted]

If your tank requires a flash heal to crit he is probably incompetent to be honest. A PoH can do around 250K healing when you really need it. So I really don't get your reluctance in recognizing its power.

That's why you are better with CoW. You don't need to rely on a Flash Heal crit to build shields and stabilise if you have CoW and can save your guaranteed crit for PoH when it is needed to both shield and heal.

[Jimjam38]

It literally has the same cast time as Heal.

CoW is great because it stacks. What other spell can you use to consistently get a 150k+ shield stacked up on the tank?

Like...boss stops attacking for 2-3 seconds to cast something? If you're spamming Heal, the tank sits at full health. If you're spamming CoW, you're stacking a bigger and bigger shield on him.

I have no idea why people keep hating on CoW so much. I can't see how people play Disc in 5mans without it. It's easily the best tank-healing spell in the game.

^This
In proving grounds, most of the damage is on the tanks anyway, and the party damage is easily dealt with PWS and the occasional PoH. If you want to see how I used CoW, you can read my extremely lengthy and unnecessarily detailed Disc Priest Proving Grounds guide. If you're struggling with CoW and feel that using direct heals is better, then I expect you haven't adopted the "absorb not heal" mentality yet. Disc isn't about direct heals, if you're always playing catch up and reactionary healing then you'd be better suited to holy, disc is about preshielding and preventing it from happening.

[Deleted]

Who the hell spams heal? I'm not sure you know how to play disc properly. In challenge modes for example, there is practically 0 need to use 1 single Heal.

[anon5123]

Who the hell spams heal? I'm not sure you know how to play disc properly.

Nobody spams heal as Disc. But what do you use if you don't use CoW or Heal?

CoW is usually my filler spell, in a way. If I'm not doing anything else, then I'm spamming CoW on the tank to keep it stacked as high as possible. PWS on group when expecting AoE damage, Penance to spot heal, and Flash Heal really only used if something goes horribly wrong, usually derp-ps standing in the fire or something.

[Deleted]

Who the hell spams heal? I'm not sure you know how to play disc properly. In challenge modes for example, there is practically 0 need to use 1 single Heal.

Then what spell are you using to heal tanks up that doesn't require you to drain your mana? You have such an attitude towards priests on this sub forum, seems there's far too many egos that deserve to be removed.

[Deleted]

Nobody spams heal as Disc. But what do you use if you don't use CoW or Heal?

CoW is usually my filler spell, in a way. If I'm not doing anything else, then I'm spamming CoW on the tank to keep it stacked as high as possible. PWS on group when expecting AoE damage, Penance to spot heal, and Flash Heal really only used if something goes horribly wrong, usually derp-ps standing in the fire or something.

Have you done challenge modes? I've seen the cow being useful mainly before a pull. I've seen no fight at all that is able to use in the fight, after the first 10 seconds.

Well, if it is useful in the fight, it's probably a faceroll fight that does not need any special spell at all.

The fact of the matter is all fights I've seen either have heavy raid damage or both tank + raid dmg.

[anon5123]

Have you done challenge modes?

Yes, I did an entire Iron Docks CM without ever using Heal once, only CoW/PWS for tank healing, and flash heal/penance for spot healing/emergencies.

If you claim that CoW is only useful before a pull, you're doing something wrong.

[blancoo]

Have you done challenge modes? I've seen the cow being useful mainly before a pull. I've seen no fight at all that is able to use in the fight, after the first 10 seconds.

Well, if it is useful in the fight, it's probably a faceroll fight that does not need any special spell at all.

The fact of the matter is all fights I've seen either have heavy raid damage or both tank + raid dmg.

seems to me you are the one not knowing how-to-priest in 6.0.3.

Feels shit right? Don't talk down on people.

[Nevakanezah]

..I've no idea why people go with that clunky mechanic called CoW.

Let's discuss it together, shall we?

It stops you from playing properly since there is no time for extra pw:s, no time for raid/group healing while that slow spell is taking a century to cast.

While it's true that CoW is slower than what you may be used to in MoP, it's easy to forget that it shares a cast time with Heal, but does so much more! CoW's seemingly-long cast time only means that you're casting it when you arent in an emergency, meaning that when damage does spike, you have already spent your time preparing for it!

Consider the time you have to heal party members while the tank is nice and stable behind his 50-200k shield, you have centuries to top up those dps who shouldn't be taking much damage anyway!

Sure, if a single tank, a single player is dying from a single attack, it might be a niche, but I see no viability for almost all, to not say all real fights.

Seeing as this argument is based on opinion, i'll offer this suggestion: Consider if you will that CoW is used like greater heal back in cata/lk/whathaveyou. It's reasonably efficient, hits for a large amount, and can be used freely without repercussions. But CoW is even better than Gheal, because not only is it functionally identical to a slow heal if your tank is taking damage, but it allows you to do all that "healing" well in advance, giving you more time to manage the rest of the party.

Did you know that compared to casting heal, CoW helps your party member absorb twice the damage, while only costing 50% more? In fact it's even better than that, as dpriest mastery is twice as effective for shields as it is for healing.

Has anyone even made the math for it? Is it even higher HPS than just dropping a critted PoH? Or a critted flash heal and a pw:s?

It just seems so inadequate to compete with the regular flow of disc healing in most real situations.

Sadly, I do not possess the math for CoW's effectiveness. But the people who've written most of the priest guides do, and they solidly recommend it as the go-to talent for level 100. And while HPS might be higher with PoH or Fheal, a HPS-centric argument doesn't really enforce your point, or you would be better off arguing we should all reroll druids! CoW is, in short, a well-rounded default healing option for disc which enjoys great mechanical support from our mastery. Used well, this spell is ample competition for any single-target options available, and due to its niche use, has the added bonus of synergizing well with other healing classes on top of its current functionality.

I hope this post has been at the very least informative.

[Deleted]

I think you're exaggerating a bit about the "centuries" you have to use cow. Are you mainly doing heroics? Because frankly I can do whatever with one hand in there and still succeed now.

It's when it gets to challenge mode (and "oh shit" moments) that cow seems to be mainly useful in the seconds before a pull and MAYBE in 1 or 2 fights out of 10 or 20 once in the fight or twice.

[Nevakanezah]

It's when it gets to challenge mode (and "oh shit" moments) that cow seems to be mainly useful in the seconds before a pull and MAYBE in 1 or 2 fights out of 10 or 20 once in the fight or twice.

Absolutely; CoW is not an "oh shit" button, nor was it ever meant to be. CoW is (in my opinion) best used as the go-to healing option for disc, in the same way that flash heal or PoH is the better option for emergencies.

Not that i haven't saved my share of pugs with a quick PI -> CoW chain or two.

[Deleted]

I think you mean it's the best for downtimes. Sure, it might be. The thing is, in the most challenging content there may not be downtimes, unless the target is only 1 player being healed, maybe 2.

Also, it often competes with pw:s if there is very little time.

It's great when there is downtime, but it might be rare.



PS. I'll test PI+CoW spam. It sounds like an applicable combo. Possibly.

[Bigslick]

Absolutely; CoW is not an "oh shit" button, nor was it ever meant to be. CoW is (in my opinion) best used as the go-to healing option for disc, in the same way that flash heal or PoH is the better option for emergencies.

Not that i haven't saved my share of pugs with a quick PI -> CoW chain or two.

^^

In any occasion where the group is mostly topped off, it's the best bet. Getting a substantial absorb pre-stacked up on the tank mitigates the need for large scale healing on multiple targets when an aoe burst hits the group and the tank takes an additional large hit, letting you then focus more on proper triage.

Similarly, with PI, it's a great tool to prep the whole party to negate an incoming burst in that, while it isn't applied to the full party as quickly as 5x PWS and does cost a little more (though that cost is still low, especially under PI) it generates a larger pre-emptive absorb and keeps PWS viable on all targets should someone 'oops' and take excessive additional damage on top of said burst.