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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    I did all of my CMs on all of the characters I chose to do it on joining groups, not forming them, and of the 6 I completed it on only 2 had bloodlust. I can use anecdotes too and flip the argument, it's not hard, the simple thing is however that having this ridiculous holier-than-thou stance of "WELL I SUFFERED SO YOU SHOULD NOW, BUT MORE, AND WORSE!" is childish, and not helpful.

    It was a taunt in jest - don't get so bent outta shape -sheesh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  2. #82
    Herald of the Titans Putin-Chan's Avatar
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    I love all the rgues saying "deal with it" I had trouble in raids 4-5 years ago. Rogues are meant to be OP pvp asshats with 3x as much cc as other classes, that's blizzard's goal with them.
    You could have the world in the palm of your hands
    You still might drop it

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Now this is just nonsense.

    Most Gold groups atm run with Rogues for the AoE stealth or WW/Ret/Feral for their very strong DPS atm.
    Most caster specs are actually pretty bad for Gold runs because they simply can't perform on the move as well. Obviously you still want a 2 ranged/1 melee setup usually though.
    Most gold groups? all you have to do is look at wowprogress to see that most groups have no melee dps, ranged dps has always been better then melee in CM's.

    Quote Originally Posted by mashanu View Post
    You're kidding right? Have you even actively done Challenge Modes in MoP and WoD?
    Have you done challenge modes? casters are much stronger in CM's for multiply reasons and it's always been like this.

    My CM group in MoP had a enh shaman, we were pretty much the only group that ran any melee dps (we had US first times for a group with melee dps) and it was a huge disadvantage and I would say its even worse now.

  4. #84
    Our utility is good as ever IMO,
    aoe Stun, aoe Root, single target slow, purge, cleanse, Hero, Off healing CDs (althou heavily neutered, seriously, it scaled with dps, everything got squished except hp, making it about 1/20th as powerful as it used to be "/ ) and ranged interupt.
    oh and tanking totem

    and given more than 5-6 targets there are no one, and I mean NO ONE who can match Enhance aoe dmg.


    all that still doesnt help our dreadful single target dps thou : <

    oh, and elemental is still funda(ele)mentally broken, how has blizz not figured this out yet? standstill ele does, not, work!
    I've no idea what to write here.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Argarock View Post
    Our utility is good as ever IMO,
    aoe Stun, aoe Root, single target slow, purge, cleanse, Hero, Off healing CDs (althou heavily neutered, seriously, it scaled with dps, everything got squished except hp, making it about 1/20th as powerful as it used to be "/ ) and ranged interupt.
    oh and tanking totem

    and given more than 5-6 targets there are no one, and I mean NO ONE who can match Enhance aoe dmg.


    all that still doesnt help our dreadful single target dps thou : <

    oh, and elemental is still funda(ele)mentally broken, how has blizz not figured this out yet? standstill ele does, not, work!
    It's not all bad news. Enh has a place in non mythic raiding guilds.

  6. #86
    Deleted
    I have been doing quite a bit of Challenge Modes (CMs) as Elemental, with my guild, as well as random groups. And while I rarely top the damage meter, I don't fall completely behind either. Combine that with decent crowd control (Hex and Root Totem), I would same Elemental is very similar to Frost Mages. Maybe slightly worse, but only slightly. If you want Blizzard to listen, you got to stop whining like crazy, and be constructive regarding the issues that remains with the Shaman. Because there definitely are still issues (as with most classes), but if you blow them out of proportions, it becomes hard to take your criticism seriously.

  7. #87
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by FuriousGeorge View Post
    And while I rarely top the damage meter
    You have never topped a damage meter, in this expansion, ever.

  8. #88
    With CMs it's more about the fact that Enhancement is melee, and Elemental lacks a few helpful cooldowns than anything else. Plenty of CMs aren't worth pugging with more than 1 melee, just because of the nature of the encounters and how much DPS-uptime melee lose out on (Auchindoun comes to mind, 3/4 fights actively punish melee especially if the tank doesn't go out of their way to position bosses for melee). And with Elemental technically a Mage or Warlock is going to provide things like consumables which are nice especially in pug CMs.

    The ugly truth I found out from Highmaul, is that Enhancement in particular, suffers from 'gaps' in DPS. Which was never really apparent to me in CMs where most bosses have add mechanics, or die before cooldowns run out...

    But especially on the single target fights, Enhancement DPS often seems like 1 CD too few. Like clockwork after the initial pull there always seems to be that stretch of time where you have Searing/Flameshock up, Maelstrom isn't 5 stacks, and Lavalash, Stormstrike, and Frostshock are on cooldown. Maybe its' partially a gear issue for me (only 635ilvl) but I was constantly finding myself with 1-2 wasted globals on fights like The Butcher simply because all cooldowns were down for 2-3 seconds leaving me nothing to do but waste a global or two and AA.

    And even when you get lucky Lavalash procs or are using the Echo of Elements passive, the default rotation gives you barely mediocre DPS.

    What's disgusting is how much the problem goes away with even 1 add. On a fight like Tectus, the simple fact that the boss will during phase 1 summon an add that runs to melee, despite how quickly the add dies it still instantly propels Shaman DPS into top-5 potential even before the boss splits up into multiple targets.

    I think the multiplicative nature of Fire Nova is going to preclude it from ever being buffed, but Enhancement Shamans at least, really need that 1 extra cooldown to inject into their rotation on single target encounters to keep them from having empty globals with no abilities to use.
    Last edited by FROIDBUSTER; 2014-12-03 at 03:22 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #89
    The Patient
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    Enh is actually much better than mop in cms atm but melee is usually unwanted in pugs in general.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by FROIDBUSTER View Post
    With CMs it's more about the fact that Enhancement is melee, and Elemental lacks a few helpful cooldowns than anything else. Plenty of CMs aren't worth pugging with more than 1 melee, just because of the nature of the encounters and how much DPS-uptime melee lose out on (Auchindoun comes to mind, 3/4 fights actively punish melee especially if the tank doesn't go out of their way to position bosses for melee). And with Elemental technically a Mage or Warlock is going to provide things like consumables which are nice especially in pug CMs.

    The ugly truth I found out from Highmaul, is that Enhancement in particular, suffers from 'gaps' in DPS. Which was never really apparent to me in CMs where most bosses have add mechanics, or die before cooldowns run out...

    But especially on the single target fights, Enhancement DPS often seems like 1 CD too few. Like clockwork after the initial pull there always seems to be that stretch of time where you have Searing/Flameshock up, Maelstrom isn't 5 stacks, and Lavalash, Stormstrike, and Frostshock are on cooldown. Maybe its' partially a gear issue for me (only 635ilvl) but I was constantly finding myself with 1-2 wasted globals on fights like The Butcher simply because all cooldowns were down for 2-3 seconds leaving me nothing to do but waste a global or two and AA.

    And even when you get lucky Lavalash procs or are using the Echo of Elements passive, the default rotation gives you barely mediocre DPS.

    What's disgusting is how much the problem goes away with even 1 add. On a fight like Tectus, the simple fact that the boss will during phase 1 summon an add that runs to melee, despite how quickly the add dies it still instantly propels Shaman DPS into top-5 potential even before the boss splits up into multiple targets.

    I think the multiplicative nature of Fire Nova is going to preclude it from ever being buffed, but Enhancement Shamans at least, really need that 1 extra cooldown to inject into their rotation on single target encounters to keep them from having empty globals with no abilities to use.
    More buttons to press is the last thing Enhancement needs, especially not another cooldown, way too much power is already put into cooldowns for that spec, and also to a degree for Elemental. With Elemental totems and all that. What it needs is some real scaling and a more streamlined player experience, and this really goes for all three of the Shaman specs, but Enhancement definitely hurt the most.

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