Proving ground silver requirement...

[gamingmuscle]

It wasn't worth it. The requirement is doing nothing.

But your own story proves it does do something.

1) it delays them.
2) it forces them to try, for at least a little while.

It doesn't prevent them from being dicks later, nothing can prevent that.

[h4rr0d]

They should raise the requirement to Gold imo, I see too many tanks that just refuse to move out of obvious mechanics like smash/fire.

Yeah, that's not what tanking proving grounds taught me. And the fire in proving grounds is super obvious (and super hurting, so standing in it is not an option). What tanking PGs taught me is to try and figure out an optimal way of using my cooldowns the next time I try an encounter (notice how this requires failing the encounter first). Also tanking PGs taught me that DPS/healers are incompetent meter whores who don't interrupt and heal for jack*$@&.

In dungeons the biggest damage spike (the one that's the most demanding on both healer and tank) comes in the beginning of the fight, before active mitigation kicks in, so you need to use some other way of mitigating the damage (cds, cc, ...), while in PG the damage output of the waves that aren't complete faceroll (anything with great fire caster and small dot stacking rabbits) is ramping up over time as the dot stacks higher and your healer can't keep up with it anymore.

[BananaHandsB]

Entirely agree, I only really have one main gripe with the proving grounds:

The disparity between classes in the proving grounds is absolutely unreal, while making Silver quite comfortably as Elemental, it didn't even compare to the 40 second wait between waves when I re-did it as unholy. The same was true in MoP (the difference between doing the PG on a good class compared to a bad class was extremely noticeable).

That's why they don't require gold tho. Even on a "bad" class, silver is very attainable with moderate skill.

[Enitzu]

Silver is too hard? I can't even start to believe that lol. I was usually standing around waiting for the next wave for 30-45 seconds. If anything it's too easy. If people can't clear silver then the heroics will be too hard

[rda]

But your own story proves it does do something.

1) it delays them.
2) it forces them to try, for at least a little while.

It doesn't prevent them from being dicks later, nothing can prevent that.

OK, the requirement is doing something (not nothing), but you need a microscope to see it, and it's unclear if what it is doing is positive or negative. Good enough?

[Anium]

Never subjected myself to proving grounds prior to WoD but needing to complete silver to tank hcs I decided to do it, and first of all lol, i thought it was a joke.

[h4rr0d]

Never subjected myself to proving grounds prior to WoD but needing to complete silver to tank hcs I decided to do it, and first of all lol, i thought it was a joke.

What class do you play?

[Sam the Wiser]

Should of been endless 10 at least. I have not seen a single tank or melee dps get out of fire yet. This xpac is fire heavy and healing that shit is getting so annoying.

[Fayth]

I do think the requirement is much needed. I did level up my main within first two days after release. Had no problems with normals, people were using their brains and had no wipes. Heroics continued the same route. A week later, I leveled up my alt. When I hopped in to a normal dungeon at lvl 100.. Man it was a disaster.
So many people having no idea how to play their class/role. It is a good thing that proving grounds seem to keep most of the baddies out of the heroics.

[h4rr0d]

I do think the requirement is much needed. I did level up my main within first two days after release. Had no problems with normals, people were using their brains and had no wipes. Heroics continued the same route. A week later, I leveled up my alt. When I hopped in to a normal dungeon at lvl 100.. Man it was a disaster.
So many people having no idea how to play their class/role. It is a good thing that proving grounds seem to keep most of the baddies out of the heroics.

Yeah, I remember exactly that in Cata heroics prenerf. I rushed to 80, got into LFG heroics and everything was fine and dandy. I then went to a week vacation and when I returned (just around xmass), LFG pugs were mess.

[Deleted]

That's why they don't require gold tho. Even on a "bad" class, silver is very attainable with virtually zero skill.

I fixed your post.

[grimsanta]

Class disparity is huge. On my boomkin, it was super easy. On my windwalker (which I did just last night) it was a complete joke. Got gold on both of those with ilvls of around 605.

On my frost mage, silver was a pain in the ass. Not to say it was really hard, just that I had to learn the packs and plan my cooldowns accordingly. Also, if I didn't get enough fingers of frost procs, I was just plain screwed.

[melodramocracy]

Should of been endless 10 at least. I have not seen a single tank or melee dps get out of fire yet. This xpac is fire heavy and healing that shit is getting so annoying.

Yeah, lets make it endless 10, so that queue times improve.

/logic.

In other news, I've seen plenty of groups do things correctly. YMMV.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding the PG's themselves.... I thought the tank one was more difficult than dps.... but yeah, if you cannot beat silver, you really shouldn't be tanking just yet.

[Deleted]

Yeah, lets make it endless 10, so that queue times improve.

Yup. Asking for endless is an incredibly short-sighted idea that would absolutely hurt the queue times.

[Gahk]

So, experienced players are having a easy time doing the minimum requirement do a content that isn't very hard to begin with. What a shocker!

[krunksmash]

Silver is good but I think they need to add a " Training mode " that teaches players ... especially tanks to use CC and not Rambo heroics. maybe a simulated heroic run that uses NPC's to fill missing roles and walks players through how to mark, CC, and correctly pull packs in heroics.

[Uriel]

Silver is good but I think they need to add a " Training mode " that teaches players ... especially tanks to use CC and not Rambo heroics. maybe a simulated heroic run that uses NPC's to fill missing roles and walks players through how to mark, CC, and correctly pull packs in heroics.

I actually tried that. I did mark dangerous mobs with skull hoping that this stupid panda might focus on that guy rather than the obsolete adds. Well it didn't work. Seems to be alright though since in random Instances most people give a damn about markings. In most cases all other mobs die before the skll marked mob.

[Lucetia]

Having to get at least silver in the proving grounds before heroics is one of the best things they have done.

I didn't think it was a big deal until I started reading the official forums. So many people with the line:
"I'm a great player, proving grounds is just too hard!"

Haha! I for one, think that even though heroics aren't hard, having some sort of skill check before grouping up is fantastic.

Thoughts?

Well, I think part of the problem is that some classes have a hard time at that low of an iLvL just like they did in MoP. I know as a Ret Paladin I just went in and wrecked everything with about 10-20 seconds left. Friend of mine did WW and was easily clearing with 30+ seconds. Ran it with a Balance Druid wiped a couple times but was able to finish it with about 5 or so seconds left. Then did it with a fury warrior and wiped quite a bit due to mobs taking too long to go down. All toons were 600 +/- 3 iLvLs.

It's just a matter of what class you are and how heavily you rely on certain stats to be actually decent. Also, I'm not sure how people say your gear scales to 630 when every toon I took it in on never scaled (doubled checked iLvL panel and gear and it didn't raise like when you go to Ashran or a BG).

Proving Grounds overall is the most stupid thing ever, imo. Some think it's great and that's their opinion and fine to have. Proving Grounds teaching you absolutely nothing. DPS one just says "Hey mobs stand still while you dps them down. You might have to interrupt once in awhile or avoid something", which happens never in heroics. Mobs are constantly moving and dropping stuff. I don't think I've seen a heroic yet where people interrupt or stuff where I'm using it on CD and still missing things. Not even tanks.

The tank challenge was easy as well. I ran it with a 522 weapon from ToT some 580 shield and rest was ret gear so I was around 590ish. One shotted both Bronze and Silver and didn't use a cooldown. With that said I haven't tanked a heroic yet as I want to have an actual weapon/shield. When I run it as DPS I have tanks who tank in fire, doesn't know how to interrupt/stun mobs and/or not know how to position a boss. Which as a range wouldn't be an issue, but as melee it's frustrating. I've seen Earth Elementals tank better than some tanks by actually getting behind them when they do a frontal attack on the ground and even positioning them out of bad stuff. (Been using it on my shaman on rares for kicks).

[Deleted]

Yup. Asking for endless is an incredibly short-sighted idea that would absolutely hurt the queue times.

Ratio would be the same, so queue times would not be really hurt. I rarely spend more than 30s in queue anyway.

[PaladinBash]

Heroics are really fucking easy. They're harder than MoP and in 610 ilvl without anyone having done them, they looked rough and people CC'd them. Now in 630-640ilvl and having done them a week, everyone zergs them. Not as mindless as MoP but after the LFR has rolled out, it will look the same.