[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[Deleted]

Sorry but this is completely wrong. There's much more to theorycrafting than logging in looking at some random numbers...

The reason why haste gives more throughput than mastery is not that you need less rating per 1%. Haste was better when it still was at 100 baseline. The reason is the high baseline mastery and the additive mastery buff, which both devalue mastery from gear (sometimes called "diminishing returns"). The haste buff, in contrast, is multiplicative with haste from gear (as well as our haste specialization), so you get the full value.

Edit: If you are interested in how to do this theorycrafting stuff correctly, I advise you to read Hamlet's findings at ....

Well according to it it's best to keep mastery and haste stats equal then so that neither of them values start declining :P

Also I was not trying to imply my calculations as 100% correct - I simply wanted solid proofs not just words and Hamlets guide seems quite alright just the thing I was searching for. Don't know why people started flaming me. I spent a few hours on my char just trying to figure it out by myself and posted it hoping for people to point out if I am correct or wrong and if so where I am wrong , again with proofs, not just by saying "OMG totally wrong, absolutely not true, so stupid etc".

Anyways thanks for the link. Quite useful indeed.

[Sprucelee]

Hi everyone! Currently using 'Mythic Inferno-Flame Staff' from Gruul. However I also have the 'Mythic Dagger of Blazing Radiance' from Flamebender. Is the staff BiS regardless? Or would I be better off with the Dagger + Off-hand from BRF?

The staff is "BIS" withstanding the MH+OH being WF or socketed.

[Deluminat]

Hey fellow rdruids,

I got another gear question, which I am wondering about:

I got the Mythic Kargath neck, which is
685ilvl
157int
94haste
111spirit

Now I got the Kromog Mythic one which is
700ilvl
180int
124crit
114spirit
+SOCKET

Now usually I wouldve said the kargath one is better since crit is our worst, haste our best stat. With the socket being able to add another 50haste, this might not be the case though. Any comments/recommendations please?

[Krazyito]

Hey fellow rdruids,

I got another gear question, which I am wondering about:

I got the Mythic Kargath neck, which is
685ilvl
157int
94haste
111spirit

Now I got the Kromog Mythic one which is
700ilvl
180int
124crit
114spirit
+SOCKET

Now usually I wouldve said the kargath one is better since crit is our worst, haste our best stat. With the socket being able to add another 50haste, this might not be the case though. Any comments/recommendations please?

Based on some simple stat weights: ilvl wins out.

[Deluminat]

Sweet, thanks for that information, Krazyito.

on another note: mind telling me or sharing that application you got going there? Did u write your own excel?

[Krazyito]

Sweet, thanks for that information, Krazyito.

on another note: mind telling me or sharing that application you got going there? Did u write your own excel?

Yea, just a simple spreadsheet i made, nothing real fancy or complicated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...8M0YaocsQ/edit

I also made a slight error in the picture, but it doesn't really change the outcome. I fixed it on the link. (Basically I told the sheet I could gem Spirit/Bonus Armor)

[theburned]

Based on some simple stat weights: ilvl wins out.

why is the socket worth 42 and 60?

[Sprucelee]

why is the socket worth 42 and 60?

Looks like common vs. rare gem (and the 1.2 multiplier, though that was a mistake I think with spirit/ba)

[Tiberria]

It's not all that surprising that ilvl will almost always win out, given how heavily clustered the value of Haste/Mastery/Crit/MS/Vers are. I think people focus way too much of the value of gemming/enchanting haste vs mastery, when the overall net impact of either/or is so marginal, and the stats are so close that the value can switch on a pull to pull or fight to fight basis.

I would argue that the value weighting of Spirit should be at or near the value of INT on a 1:1 basis, and be much higher than the other secondary stats, though. I think a 2.0:1.2 valuation of Int: Spirit is skewed. This is likely to especially be the case next tier, when our overall regen levels are likely to reach the point where taking Rampant Growth as a throughput increasing/mana dump becomes optimal. Even if you don't want to use it to game it to tha max (i.e. clipping Rejuv on the last tick for maximum SoTF procs), the value of being able to cast a SoTF-WG every 10 seconds instead of every ~16.5 seconds is very high, and something that is likely to be sustainable during burst damage periods at attainable T18 Spirit levels. With how unfavorable damage patterns (at least in initial raid testing) look for slow ticking HoTs next tier, I would not be suprised at all to see RG become the most popular build, which puts Spirit's value through the roof.

[theburned]

It's not all that surprising that ilvl will almost always win out, given how heavily clustered the value of Haste/Mastery/Crit/MS/Vers are. I think people focus way too much of the value of gemming/enchanting haste vs mastery, when the overall net impact of either/or is so marginal, and the stats are so close that the value can switch on a pull to pull or fight to fight basis.

I would argue that the value weighting of Spirit should be at or near the value of INT on a 1:1 basis, and be much higher than the other secondary stats, though. I think a 2.0:1.2 valuation of Int: Spirit is skewed. This is likely to especially be the case next tier, when our overall regen levels are likely to reach the point where taking Rampant Growth as a throughput increasing/mana dump becomes optimal. Even if you don't want to use it to game it to tha max (i.e. clipping Rejuv on the last tick for maximum SoTF procs), the value of being able to cast a SoTF-WG every 10 seconds instead of every ~16.5 seconds is very high, and something that is likely to be sustainable during burst damage periods at attainable T18 Spirit levels. With how unfavorable damage patterns (at least in initial raid testing) look for slow ticking HoTs next tier, I would not be suprised at all to see RG become the most popular build, which puts Spirit's value through the roof.

I personally found RG to have quite some value for a few of the bosses on the PTR, specifically shadow-lord Iskar, lots of instant damage, and also the debuff at tyrant velhari where you could couple it with NS and just chain spam sotf'ed NS RGs.

[Krazyito]

why is the socket worth 42 and 60?

50 * 1.2 = 60
35 * 1.2 = 42

Although, like I mentioned, I made a small mistake, that I have already corrected, with that where I was accounting for Spirit/BA as a gemmable stat.

Also I encourage anyone to use their own weights depending on how they value each stat. As tiberria mentioned, some people may want to value spirit much more, or should value it much more.

[emni]

I was just in awe when reading this tweet...

Is your claim that Tranq and Hymn were unusable spells prior to Warlords?

(Source)

Have they honestly suddenly forgotten about Symbiosis? Or that disc was so powerful in MoP that nobody cared if Hymn was usable because so few people played holy? (and even then Hymn is a much smaller portion of a priest's throughput than it is for a druid) Or what about spell scaling, Revival and Tide used to be much weaker compared to Tranq to compensate for the ease of use...

It's just... sigh. Remind me again why not just play a shaman? ><

[Deleted]

It's just... sigh. Remind me again why not just play a shaman? ><

Wrong faction, 40ilvls, CM weapons
Couldn't find an answer that has to do with pve mechanics - 6.2 might make me switch, ymmv :/

[Snaige]

I was just in awe when reading this tweet...

(Source)

Have they honestly suddenly forgotten about Symbiosis? Or that disc was so powerful in MoP that nobody cared if Hymn was usable because so few people played holy? (and even then Hymn is a much smaller portion of a priest's throughput than it is for a druid) Or what about spell scaling, Revival and Tide used to be much weaker compared to Tranq to compensate for the ease of use...

It's just... sigh. Remind me again why not just play a shaman? ><

I do have a twitter account but somehow missed this discussion entirely. Seems like a really silly reply from watcher. But at least it is brought to his attention so that's something...

[toam00]

When you say it'st best to keep them equal (haste/mastery), do you mean in terms of rating or % ?

[kooz]

I was just in awe when reading this tweet...

(Source)

Have they honestly suddenly forgotten about Symbiosis? Or that disc was so powerful in MoP that nobody cared if Hymn was usable because so few people played holy? (and even then Hymn is a much smaller portion of a priest's throughput than it is for a druid) Or what about spell scaling, Revival and Tide used to be much weaker compared to Tranq to compensate for the ease of use...

It's just... sigh. Remind me again why not just play a shaman? ><

honestly I was pissed by that blue posting.

i play a resto shaman too, it's just historically not been my main though..as a rdruid how am i going to be able to compete for a raid spot with a rshammy if he drops htt ( scaling with haste unlike druid's tranq) and keeps chain healing while moving let alone other powerful cds in the toolkit?

[Thalur]

When you say it'st best to keep them equal (haste/mastery), do you mean in terms of rating or % ?

It isn't. Haste is better than mastery unless you heavily use Regrowth or need a super strong Tranq. And unless you have 1500 more haste than mastery (rating from gear), you don't need to worry about keeping them close.

[Deleted]

TLDR: ilvl > all

When you say it'st best to keep them equal (haste/mastery), do you mean in terms of rating or % ?

Percentages after raid buffs.

The idea is similar to this:
You split a number into two summands, which you then multiply. You will get the biggest product if you split the number into equal summands.
Like 5x5 = 25, 4x6 = 24, 3x7 = 21.
The number (10 in this case) is your stat budget, summands represent your haste and mastery bonus and the product your overall healing bonus multiplier.
Ingame it is more bloated with rating conversions and haste only applying to some heals. But that was the THEORY behind it. It is waay oversimplified btw.

In practise it gets overshadowed by the fact that druids heavily benefit from haste (extra ticks AND faster GCD) - and the rating conversion buff to haste.
Which in turn gets overshadowed by the fact that item level trumps everything, because of intellect's value.

[kooz]

When you say it'st best to keep them equal (haste/mastery), do you mean in terms of rating or % ?

not that i'm advocating this (still thinking/experimenting) but I've seen some pov on mastery vs haste with background of overheal we know being huge for a resto druid

so pretty much if you know that your hots most probably are going to be wasted to overheal after a few ticks, you want first hot ticks to make most so that's when mastery plays over haste.

/discuss

[Deleted]

not that i'm advocating this

It was a theory at the beginning of WoD, which was never proven to be best. It was just a very good guideline (imo). After the haste-buff and with higher spirit levels, it's much easier: haste > all

/discuss

Has been discussed in this thread before. Haste gives you faster ticks, so it's similar to mastery in that regard. Both mastery and haste extra healing is spread out over the full duration of the hot.
And if you want to snipe other healers with hardcasts you go haste. This thread is now teaching newbies how to get hated by their raid team haha