[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[kooz]

There's a difference what hot ticks you waste to overheal rj or wg

when wg is number 1 on your heal chart.

[Pyrianis]

There's a difference what hot ticks you waste to overheal rj or wg

when wg is number 1 on your heal chart.

Yeah, no. Mastery doesn't make your Wild Growth any more front-loaded than Haste does.

[Teramelle]

Any mythic-raiders here that could give me some tips and tricks on healing mythic BRF in general? The usual healing set-up we have is a holy paladin, a disc priest and a holy priest or resto shaman. This combination leads me to, seemingly, perform poorly on meters. Or, theoretically anyway. Whenever we don't have the disc priest (or the holy pala, but most notably with the disc priest) I keep up just fine on meters, but when the full healing team is there, it seems like I'm not pulling my weight even though I have a high general uptime and I'm healing as I would at any other point. Heal sniping is rampant, really - and if I do manage to get heals in that don't just go to overhealing, it's direct heals, which drains my mana. My HoTs don't really have time to do anything useful before the target's at full health from another healer's contribution.

I've been benched for these issues, and replaced with another resto druid, who seems to have a similar issue of just not performing well on meters - on some pulls, on Mythic Blast Furnace, he did do better than me... but on the night I was benched for him, they went with a different tactic which lead to the disc priest in our set-up to have a fair amount of downtime, so there was actually more to heal. I was also, on our tries, on the side with the holy paladin and disc priest, so it was a struggle to get a heal in edgeways at times.

Is there anything I can do to combat this? I can provide logs but I'm mostly looking for general tips and recommendations. o.e

[Brilynn]

Any mythic-raiders here that could give me some tips and tricks on healing mythic BRF in general? The usual healing set-up we have is a holy paladin, a disc priest and a holy priest or resto shaman. This combination leads me to, seemingly, perform poorly on meters. Or, theoretically anyway. Whenever we don't have the disc priest (or the holy pala, but most notably with the disc priest) I keep up just fine on meters, but when the full healing team is there, it seems like I'm not pulling my weight even though I have a high general uptime and I'm healing as I would at any other point. Heal sniping is rampant, really - and if I do manage to get heals in that don't just go to overhealing, it's direct heals, which drains my mana. My HoTs don't really have time to do anything useful before the target's at full health from another healer's contribution.

I've been benched for these issues, and replaced with another resto druid, who seems to have a similar issue of just not performing well on meters - on some pulls, on Mythic Blast Furnace, he did do better than me... but on the night I was benched for him, they went with a different tactic which lead to the disc priest in our set-up to have a fair amount of downtime, so there was actually more to heal. I was also, on our tries, on the side with the holy paladin and disc priest, so it was a struggle to get a heal in edgeways at times.

Is there anything I can do to combat this? I can provide logs but I'm mostly looking for general tips and recommendations. o.e

HoTs will never compete with shields. We just can't. No matter how much we try, we don't have the tools to just PREVENT damage like Disc and Hpally. Your raid leader should know this. However, as far as competition with Holy Priest and Shaman, depending on the player they're all decently even. A good druid competing with a good holy priest is going to result in pretty similar numbers MOST of the time, not necessarily every fight. But versus a preventative healer, we're typically lower in meters.

I think [M]Oregoreger, [M]Hans and Frans, and [M]Blackhand are the only fights I've ever actually beat our disc priest/Hpallies. Mind you, I'm not one to strive for rankings, I just like to get things done and move on. In general it's going to boil down to how much healing you can snipe. As we continue to gear, BRF is looking more and more like SoO where it's not necessarily about managing your spell usage as it is about trying to steal whatever heals you can from everyone else. Unfortunately. Tranq timings are key imo. Sounds like your raid leader needs to understand that healing isn't about meters, it's about how you act as a team to get things done. If you're at least within 10-15k hps of your Disc/Hpally and performing mechanics appropriately, I'd say your're fine. Hard to distinguish what you're doing particularly "wrong" without logs to look at, but I don't want you thinking that you're doing it wrong just because you can't do as much hps as a disc priest who hits PW:shield and walks around like the king of the world.

[flooressence]

Any mythic-raiders here that could give me some tips and tricks on healing mythic BRF in general? The usual healing set-up we have is a holy paladin, a disc priest and a holy priest or resto shaman. This combination leads me to, seemingly, perform poorly on meters. Or, theoretically anyway. Whenever we don't have the disc priest (or the holy pala, but most notably with the disc priest) I keep up just fine on meters, but when the full healing team is there, it seems like I'm not pulling my weight even though I have a high general uptime and I'm healing as I would at any other point. Heal sniping is rampant, really - and if I do manage to get heals in that don't just go to overhealing, it's direct heals, which drains my mana. My HoTs don't really have time to do anything useful before the target's at full health from another healer's contribution.

I've been benched for these issues, and replaced with another resto druid, who seems to have a similar issue of just not performing well on meters - on some pulls, on Mythic Blast Furnace, he did do better than me... but on the night I was benched for him, they went with a different tactic which lead to the disc priest in our set-up to have a fair amount of downtime, so there was actually more to heal. I was also, on our tries, on the side with the holy paladin and disc priest, so it was a struggle to get a heal in edgeways at times.

Is there anything I can do to combat this? I can provide logs but I'm mostly looking for general tips and recommendations. o.e

I found throughout mythic progress in BRF I was always lacking compared to said classes (pally/priest). I think the first fight I managed to top was flamebender and blackhand, and pretty close on kromog/furnace/gruul. It may or may not be your skill level, but yes it is true resto druid is on the weak side. We essentially have no 4 set, while every other healer has a pretty good to pretty great one. There is also a lot of bursty damage.

I think what changed my healing around, to the point where I can top on farm of any boss with little effort, is double mythic spirit trinkets (blackhands especially) as well as item level in general. Druids mana is terrible, but fortunately with spirit trinket buffs they are quite strong value, and we can use them to get a lot of pre-hots early in the fight etc without worrying.

As for mythic blast furnace, your heals should be very strong later in the fight, although I find it interesting there's little to heal... are you on the side with Felspark? Because the side without Felspark is easily solo healed. Run tree and natures vigil, use your first tranq when everyone groups up after p1, and all 3 off cd (assuming timing is right). Make use of 2 set, and of course run 2 regen trinkets. Mushroom is HUGE on this fight, not so much in p1 but you should have it up 100% of the time throughout the fight. In P2 use it on the elementalists or whatever they are, where all the melee, tanks and fixated targets will be stacked. Try and use more rejuvs than wild growth, but WG if its getting too hectic, or if you're in tree. SOTF also works on this fight but for first kills TOL will definitely be stronger.

[Kaniinchen]

Just a question (didn't want to start a new thread for this), but what is better: Heroic Living Wood Headpiece (not warforged/no socket) or Mythic Sorka's Nightshade Cowl. Still gearing and have 3 set heroic (with the helm).

[Deleted]

Just a question (didn't want to start a new thread for this), but what is better: Heroic Living Wood Headpiece (not warforged/no socket) or Mythic Sorka's Nightshade Cowl. Still gearing and have 3 set heroic (with the helm).

Mythic Sorka's Nightshade Cowl by far.

[Krazyito]

so pretty much if you know that your hots most probably are going to be wasted to overheal after a few ticks, you want first hot ticks to make most so that's when mastery plays over haste.

/discuss

I still don't understand why people think haste only affects your hots at the end of its duration... It affects the time in between your ticks, which in turn gives you more ticks. The extra ticks at the end of the duration is a SIDE EFFECT of what haste does to your hots.

So saying that you get less overhealing cause you do more healing at the start with mastery is completely untrue because faster intervals could do the same amount of healing as well as account for any future damage.

Hell, you're more likely to overheal with mastery because of the slower ticks dumping into sniped heals. Whereas haste will tick faster at smaller portions and might (or might not) hit random damage.

Tldr; haste is better per point (outside of tranq), but really makes no difference in overhealing.

[Brilynn]

Mythic Sorka's Nightshade Cowl by far.

Agreed. Sorka's is definitely our best helmet choice. So long as you have at least two pieces of tier. Don't bother with the four-piece. It's utter garbage and promotes a less-than-useful playstyle.

[Deleted]

Any mythic-raiders here that could give me some tips and tricks on healing mythic BRF in general? The usual healing set-up we have is a holy paladin, a disc priest and a holy priest or resto shaman. This combination leads me to, seemingly, perform poorly on meters. Or, theoretically anyway. Whenever we don't have the disc priest (or the holy pala, but most notably with the disc priest) I keep up just fine on meters, but when the full healing team is there, it seems like I'm not pulling my weight even though I have a high general uptime and I'm healing as I would at any other point. Heal sniping is rampant, really - and if I do manage to get heals in that don't just go to overhealing, it's direct heals, which drains my mana. My HoTs don't really have time to do anything useful before the target's at full health from another healer's contribution.

I've been benched for these issues, and replaced with another resto druid, who seems to have a similar issue of just not performing well on meters - on some pulls, on Mythic Blast Furnace, he did do better than me... but on the night I was benched for him, they went with a different tactic which lead to the disc priest in our set-up to have a fair amount of downtime, so there was actually more to heal. I was also, on our tries, on the side with the holy paladin and disc priest, so it was a struggle to get a heal in edgeways at times.

Is there anything I can do to combat this? I can provide logs but I'm mostly looking for general tips and recommendations. o.e

I raid mythic as resto druid, we use a healing setup of, disc priest/H paladin/Resto shaman/Resto druid.
I play mostly with ToL and HotW since i like the big cooldowns.
i am topping the meters during our raids, while our disc priest is a very good healer.
I cannot link my logs, but you can find me on warcraftlogs under my druid name, masquerate.
there is not much special i do except pre hotting the incoming damage with rejuvs and just popping WG and then filling again with rejuvs.
all i can say is get to know the fight and the incoming damage and use that to heal better and more efficient.

[Krazyito]

If you're beating your disc, then I'm sorry your disc isn't very good. Discs should look like this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...0&type=healing

(and this isn't even the best disc in the world)

[Thalur]

If you're beating your disc, then I'm sorry your disc isn't very good. Discs should look like this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...0&type=healing

Actually, 67k from a disc priest should not prevent you from topping. Disc priests cannot go much higher than that, while as a druid you can do much more than 100k raw hps, so if there's enough damage, you can come out on top. (Not if you don't use Tranquility - why didn't you use it more in that log?) But healing with two paladins in addition to the disc must be pretty frustrating on some bosses...

There are very few bosses where druids can realistically beat good disc priests - but Kromog is one of them. See this log from last week. The other would be furnace (log from last week), but you probably need mythic Autoclave for that. However, if you're on top for other bosses, your disc is probably not very good.

For the other bosses, there is simply not enough to heal for 4 healers, but there's also no point to risk going to 3 healers just to get some rankings. I don't really mind discs being on top for most bosses in farm runs. I always felt very valuable for progress, even on mythic Blackhand. Druids are not in a bad place, discs being OP doesn't change that IMO.

[Krazyito]

(Not if you don't use Tranquility - why didn't you use it more in that log?) But healing with two paladins in addition to the disc must be pretty frustrating on some bosses...

I guess I've gotten complacent on farm. Just doesn't seem to be worth using sometimes and since I'm the healing leader, I usually save my stuff for the 'emergency' situations so I don't have to think about calling someone's name.


We just started healing with 2 paladins recently. Our resto shaman got 'kicked out of his house' so we've been trying to recruit. Paladin was the best I could find, so I'm just hoping we can make it work until our shaman comes back. It hasn't really been bad for me though.. A lot of times, I'm just more worried about where I should place one of the paladins Avenging Wraths (and decide glyph or unglyphed merciful) just to have the throughput to get through some phases that our shaman usually handles. Its been quite the puzzle.

- - - Updated - - -

Hans and Franz is basically 2 healable T_T

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports.../#type=healing

[Teramelle]

I just got two mythic upgrades today to replace heroic items, but those heroic items are tier, and if I use the mythic items (Sorka's Nightshade Cowl and Flamebender's Shoulderguards) then I lose two-set... Is it worth using the mythic items, even though I lose two-set? Or should I keep them in my bags until I get another tier item to regain two-set?

I know stats-wise the mythic items are a huge upgrade, but I don't know if it's worth losing those two extra instant-casts...

[Krazyito]

The two extra instant casts won't make up the amount of healing you'll get from the upgrade. I agree that its a QoL loss, but the stats will be overall more useful.

[Brilynn]

The two extra instant casts won't make up the amount of healing you'll get from the upgrade. I agree that its a QoL loss, but the stats will be overall more useful.

I'd have to agree. It's unfortunate, because I adore our 2 set and will be extraordinarily sad to see it leave when the time comes, but if the upgrades are that big, it's worth the loss. The extra stats from the upgrades are going to make ALL of your heals better in exchange for 2 instant regrowths.

[Tiberria]

Looking at the 2 pc/4pc on the PTR, it currently works as follows.
- When the 2 piece procs, it just gives you an extra Lifebloom heal equal to a bloom. It doesn't remove the actual HoT like some of us had feared.
- The 2 piece does interact with Glyph of Blooming, giving you 50% more healing on the 2 piece procs. With how much healing (at least on paper) the 2 piece will account for, this glyph may end up being the "default" choice for 3rd glyph over Glyph of Regrowth. It's just a matter of how annoying having to refresh LB twice every 10 seconds will become in an actual raid situation (it may end up being way too many GCDs consumed).
-The second Lifebloom from the 4 piece does NOT increase the proc rate of Omen of Clarity. There appears to be no difference in the frequency of OOC procs with 1 vs 2 Lifeblooms up.
- The 2 piece procs a LOT, which you would expect from a 60% proc rate on every LB tick. With 2 Lifeblooms out, you are effectively at a proc rate of 1.2 per second before haste. I really hope they do something about the sound effect/make 2 piece procs not make the Lifebloom blooming sound effect. That effect going off ~80 times per minute will be enough to make me go mad/have to mute spell effect sounds.

Also, the 2 piece/4 piece are incredibly overpowered at their current tuning and are going to be ridiculous unless they are toned down. Assuming the bloom doesn't remove the HoT and it doesn't double OOC proc rates: Lifebloom is about 6% of your healing typically, and each bloom is worth about 1/4 of the value of the full duration HoT. With a 60% proc rate, you would expect to get 7.2 bloom procs per 15 second LB duration (assuming 12 ticks). That works out to a 180% increase in the overall healing done by Lifebloom, which should be a 10.8% throughput increase from the 2 piece alone. That is an extremely strong set bonus from a raw throughput perspective, and is probably way over budget at a 60% proc rate.

With the 4 piece, you are effectively doubling the throughput of Lifebloom (both the baseline healing and the 10.8% increased healing from the 2 piece) at the cost of 1 GCD every 15 seconds (effectively 1 less Rejuv). A Rejuv is roughly 1/3 of the healing of a 2 piece buffed Lifebloom, so we are looking at an estimated additional 11.3% throughput buff from the 4 piece (6%+10.8%)*.67.

Overall, this 2 piece + 4 piece should increase our throughput by 22.1% - on paper, which is way over the top for set bonuses (something like 3-4 times over the typical set bonus budget). I guess it will remain to be seen how ridiculous the overheal will end up being. It will probably be over the top on fights where you have 2 tanks taking heavy damage at the same time, and much less so on tank swap fights with only one active tank at once. The other thing to keep in mind is that the double Lifebloom design, where casting LB a 3rd time will remove the first LB you cast kind of encourages you to keep it on only tanks as opposed to moving it around/using it as a reactionary heal to non tanks that dip low (i.e. you won't be able to move your 2nd LB without losing your first one).

[Deleted]

and what about trinkets? the +1000 haste changed to +/-300 int and 370 haste, which should be better i guess? with the other trinkets beeing kinda meh, and the 4set beeing good atm, we should use the class trinket then, but this way we will loose a lot of spirit so dont know where it put us, since noone of the trinkets got absurds ammounts of spirit like BRF's does

[Teramelle]

The two extra instant casts won't make up the amount of healing you'll get from the upgrade. I agree that its a QoL loss, but the stats will be overall more useful.

I'd have to agree. It's unfortunate, because I adore our 2 set and will be extraordinarily sad to see it leave when the time comes, but if the upgrades are that big, it's worth the loss. The extra stats from the upgrades are going to make ALL of your heals better in exchange for 2 instant regrowths.

Thank you so much for the help! I dropped the 2-set to get the upgrades, but as luck would have it, I got a mythic tier piece shortly after! Best of both worlds!

[Tiberria]

and what about trinkets? the +1000 haste changed to +/-300 int and 370 haste, which should be better i guess? with the other trinkets beeing kinda meh, and the 4set beeing good atm, we should use the class trinket then, but this way we will loose a lot of spirit so dont know where it put us, since noone of the trinkets got absurds ammounts of spirit like BRF's does

The Leech trinket is going to be extremely powerful, because it adds a massive amount of self healing to the entire raid, and it adds the most Leech rating when you need it the most (i.e. when you are doign the most effective healing). I suspect that trinket will probably end up being the ultimate BiS over any of the others. Aside from that, Flickering Felspark (361 Mast, Multistrike and Spirit) looks fairly decent, as does Demonic Phylactery. The value of the class trinket is going to be heavily dependent on how stacked the raid is and the damage patterns of the fight. It will probably be switched in and out for Felspark or Phylactery on a per fight basis.

As far as the Spirit loss, one thing to remember is that the 4 piece bonus means that we are going to be casting Lifebloom at least twice every 15 seconds (maybe even twice every 10 seconds if using the Blooming glyph becomes a thing). Because Lifebloom is so cheap, we will end up spending less mana than we do on live. The mana savings from replacing a Rejuv cast with a LB cast every 15 seconds alone is about equivalent to 290 Spirit, so that will offset a lot of the regen loss from trinkets.

- - - Updated - - -

The class trinket does appear to have a 6 target hard cap on it, so the stacking thing may not be that much of an issue.