[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[ryklin]

sotf is best for constant throughput over a fairly long period, and moc just isn't great unless you have low spirit or extreme mana issues, but it's alright and probably the best for single target healing

then DoC is something I'm not a fan of, it helps your healing in lower damage periods or if you go oom, if you don't have the spirit to not go oom, then I could see it being ok, but generally paladins and discs carry raids through low damage periods while you can just spam wraths and maybe drop a shroom and lifebloom with an occasional wild growth and still accomplish the healing you need to while going mana neutral, if you really need to you can take it, but being able to take more throughput for high damage phases is generally a bigger deal to a raid than being able to do healing for less when there isn't much to do,

but if it's needed to make ends meet, the final word is just use what talents you can use to kill a boss, feel free to change talents every pull until you find something you like, it really doesnt matter as long as it works for you

if you're having major mana troubles though, go ahead, honestly a build like that could be great for a fight like socrethar where most your healing is on 3-5 targets at any given time and have occasional lower damage periods

[Elumaria]

May I ask why Nature's Vigil wouldn't work with that aura? I didn't play when SoO was current content, so I'm unsure how Malkorok would've affected it.

The simple answer is "smart heal just doesn't work with this kind of absorbing aura".
I think that since everyone is damaged, NV mostly heals wrong targets and not the ones that are actually damaged.
I checked multiple of my HC-Kills (since I never used NV on mythic after realizing this) and it is the same pattern everywhere.

At the top you can see when the max-HP-reduce-Aura is active. Below are my Vigil uptimes. The third Graph shows the healing done by NV and at the bottom is my total healing. As you can see Vigil heals significantly less during that phase even though I'm not healing less than during the other uses of NV.



But I could be completely wrong and in reality I'm only overhealing into the aura (which is shown as effective healing) and vigil doesn't trigger off this overhealing. So my little effective healing would consequently only produce that little NV healing.

[Krazyito]

The simple answer is "smart heal just doesn't work with this kind of absorbing aura".

While that was true for Malkorok where he actually absorbed your healing and put your health at a stand still, velhari only reduces your max HP, The log is a bit misleading in this regard because you can't heal those people past that HP threshold, where as with Malkorok it would heal people with full shields because they had the lowest health.

Unless I'm mistaken, NV should still properly heal the lowest% HP person (If its based on total HP and not %, then I'm wrong.)

[Keiyra]

Unless I'm mistaken, NV should still properly heal the lowest% HP person (If its based on total HP and not %, then I'm wrong.)

Sadly NV is not a true smart heal anymore (lowest% health player targeted) - it got dumbed down with most of the other smart heals and therefore chooses randomly among all damaged targets - regardless of how damaged (IE randomly heals anyone at 99.9% health or less)

[Skagasm]

2.47m to 3.85m is 1.38m more bloom healing which equates to around 55-60%?

I added the Bloom portion and the HoT portion together since it seems arbitrary to split the spell between HoT and Bloom.

((3.85+1.92)-(2.47+2.14))/(2.47+2.14) = .251627

You have to cast it every 10 secs and you don't get any free refreshes with Regrowth. Glyphed LB is going to take up more casts. It seems safe to say that the floor for whether or not it's worth using is if the potential healing increase keeps pace with the extra casts.

[Hypasonic]

Yeah I mean me personally I'm not too fussed about the HoT portion anymore, since with the 2 set its the bloom that gives you the most healing, and thats all that the glyph affects so if you want things healed up faster, then the glyph seems better.

[Torty]

Heart of the Wild should be your choice on every encounter, it's far superior than Nature's Vigil =P

Yeah, I mean NV did such little healing that hotw is the only real choice.

When making ridiculous claims such as these, you should really provide some back up. "Little healing" is a myth from people that never opened a log or read the ability description.

I just loaded my latest Hellfire High Council log and in 5 NV usages it did 6,28% of my healing at 29,26% uptime. On Gorefiend in 6 uses it did 5,83% at 34,34% uptime. NV provides about 13-18% healing increase during its usage depending on your spell distribution and that multiplies with ToL buff, which you will be able to use every single time together. NV usually has very low overhealing compared to any other Druid ability. Even in a very favourable fight for HotW at 8 minutes and 2 uses, you will only get 18,75% of uptime on that, which averages as a 6,56% healing increase. That's all assuming an even damage spread and being able to take full advantage of HotW buff. It can obviously both go higher and lower than these 6,5% on a very favourably timed fight. It will be much lower in a worst case scenario (12,5% uptime and 4,38% average on a 6 minute fight) or in a moderatly worse scenario (15% uptime and 5,25% average on 10 minute fight). I wouldn't call these numbers as something showing an overwhelming advantage for HotW as you claim there is, not even mentioning the fact that HotW's healing increase will always give higher overhealing numbers than NV, so actual contribution will be even lower than that.

NV provides more frequent coverage on hardhitting abilities, has a very good synergy with ToL and gives "free" dmg. NV is better when there is a certain repeatable ability with 3 minute cycles (Iron Reaver's Pounds, High Council's Reaps/Felstorms, Kilrogg's Death Throes, Archimonde's Unleashed Torments). These abilities are generally cast 3 times during 3 minutes. You can choose to cover 1 out of 6 with strong HotW or cover 4 out of 6 with weaker NV. If you honestly think that first case provides more healing, then try supporting that with factual evidence and calculations. And even after that, it's really hard to justify covering every sixth heavy hitting stuff with strong stuff instead of covering 4 out 6 with weaker one. That said, NV isn't the best choice on every single encounter. HotW is still better, when encounter length works in a way where you can just about fit two, want to dps during the buff, or when there's only one phase with "real" damage, which you want to cover.

I don't think there's a catch-all talent in that tier. These 2 are very competitive with each other and should be chosen on per fight basis.

[Hypasonic]

Yeah torty, think you should read the page before this and you'll understand a bit better.

[Torty]

Yeah torty, think you should read the page before this and you'll understand a bit better.

I'm not talking about Velhari specifically, there were 2 comments in a row stating that HotW should be a default choice. Want me to include another one? I can do that.

Waiting for your counter arguments now.

[Hypasonic]

No? Because I was only talking about velhalri, but thanks for your detailed analysis of the talent on a boss per boss basis.

[tree of life]

Hello Everyone, I finished our clear of farm bosses on heroic this week and got the final two pieces of tier to have 5/5. One of the items is socketed gloves. My intentions were to replace the gloves with crafted feverflare gloves (haste/mastery 6/6 upgrade), since gloves are the worst itemized tier piece, and use the other 4 respective tier pieces. However, I also have a 6/6 feverflare helmet I used previously. Would using the socketed tier gloves with the crafted helmet and the other 3 tier pieces be a better choice because of the socket or would the slightly better optimization of the helmet (crit/mastery) over crit/multi on the gloves be better?

Thanks

[Leaful]

When making ridiculous claims such as these, you should really provide some back up. "Little healing" is a myth from people that never opened a log or read the ability description.

I just loaded my latest Hellfire High Council log and in 5 NV usages it did 6,28% of my healing at 29,26% uptime. On Gorefiend in 6 uses it did 5,83% at 34,34% uptime. NV provides about 13-18% healing increase during its usage depending on your spell distribution and that multiplies with ToL buff, which you will be able to use every single time together. NV usually has very low overhealing compared to any other Druid ability. Even in a very favourable fight for HotW at 8 minutes and 2 uses, you will only get 18,75% of uptime on that, which averages as a 6,56% healing increase. That's all assuming an even damage spread and being able to take full advantage of HotW buff. It can obviously both go higher and lower than these 6,5% on a very favourably timed fight. It will be much lower in a worst case scenario (12,5% uptime and 4,38% average on a 6 minute fight) or in a moderatly worse scenario (15% uptime and 5,25% average on 10 minute fight). I wouldn't call these numbers as something showing an overwhelming advantage for HotW as you claim there is, not even mentioning the fact that HotW's healing increase will always give higher overhealing numbers than NV, so actual contribution will be even lower than that.

NV provides more frequent coverage on hardhitting abilities, has a very good synergy with ToL and gives "free" dmg. NV is better when there is a certain repeatable ability with 3 minute cycles (Iron Reaver's Pounds, High Council's Reaps/Felstorms, Kilrogg's Death Throes, Archimonde's Unleashed Torments). These abilities are generally cast 3 times during 3 minutes. You can choose to cover 1 out of 6 with strong HotW or cover 4 out of 6 with weaker NV. If you honestly think that first case provides more healing, then try supporting that with factual evidence and calculations. And even after that, it's really hard to justify covering every sixth heavy hitting stuff with strong stuff instead of covering 4 out 6 with weaker one. That said, NV isn't the best choice on every single encounter. HotW is still better, when encounter length works in a way where you can just about fit two, want to dps during the buff, or when there's only one phase with "real" damage, which you want to cover.

I don't think there's a catch-all talent in that tier. These 2 are very competitive with each other and should be chosen on per fight basis.

If you think that Nature's Vigil is a better talent than Heart of the Wild because it provides more "effective" healing, then you should re-evaluate how you heal within the team. Healing isn't a numbers game.

[Wadenation]

Hypasonic, were you able to do anymore attempts tonight with the glyph on lifebloom?

I got my 4p tonight with gylph and the extra healing from the bloom glyph is really nice but I'm just not sure if refreshing two lifeblooms that often is worth it. I see there's been some talk on it here and there, is there anyone that has a strong opinion on it? I plan on testing it myself but there has to be others that have had 4p for a while now.

[Hypasonic]

Nah we didn't raid tonight and I don't have the 4 set yet but I think using the glyph with the 4 set is probably too much maintenance but won't know for sure until I get it.

[Wadenation]

The more I look at it and check out logs it seems like it may only be worth glyphing for 2piece. Once you hit 4piece like you said it seems like too much maintenance.

[Brilynn]

I felt that way as well. When I had 2 pc I had it glyphed and it felt great, but as soon as I got 4 pc I didn't like the constant refreshing dealing with 2 of them. Just seemed like too much time out from everything else I was doing to micromanage LB. It wasn't enough of a gain to warrant babysitting imo

[ryklin]

taking glyph of blooming depends on how much you have to do in the fight,and the duration of damage (this is a big part and makes it really chaotic to properly estimate), as it is possible to start losing a lot of healing to lost chances to rejuv

if you have low spirit though, it sounds great, but it seems to me like something you should just try swapping to on progress if you think it'll help

[Brilynn]

Like I said previously, I think it's going to boil down to a playstyle thing. If you don't mind refreshing your LB constantly and don't think it removes your ability to do other things, then go for it. But I know personally I don't like the way it feels. I don't think the glyph is gonna end up being a make or break for kills. Versatile play style is all it's gonna end up being.

[Deleted]

Hello Everyone, I finished our clear of farm bosses on heroic this week and got the final two pieces of tier to have 5/5. One of the items is socketed gloves. My intentions were to replace the gloves with crafted feverflare gloves (haste/mastery 6/6 upgrade), since gloves are the worst itemized tier piece, and use the other 4 respective tier pieces. However, I also have a 6/6 feverflare helmet I used previously. Would using the socketed tier gloves with the crafted helmet and the other 3 tier pieces be a better choice because of the socket or would the slightly better optimization of the helmet (crit/mastery) over crit/multi on the gloves be better?

Thanks

For now I'd use the crafted helmet with the socketed gloves, both because of the socket and the +5 ilvl on helmet. Ultimately you'll want to go for the Archimonde gloves which are haste/mastery and thus our ideal offset piece. It will also save you some gold crafting new gloves.

[ZintZaft]

Hello guys,
I got the heroic mace from Tyrant Velhari last night on bonus roll (I was hoping for boot though...), but I also have the mainhand HC WF (ilvl 711) from Kormrog together with Mannoroth normal offhand (ilvl 700). Im losing some haste and a lot of mastery, but gaining a lot of crit and about 50int + 100 spellpower if I switch to the mace. Im thinking +ilvl is always the best option, but im not sure.