DISCI in CMs

[Deleted]

Hi,
i tried to heal CMs as holy, but i find it impossible (with brm tank). In logs i can see, that priest are mainly going disci.
Do you have any tips, such as how to choose last talent?
Thanks

[Deleted]

Your L100 talent should almost certainly be Clarity of Will (as Discipline of course).

Some discussions on both Holy and Discipline for Challenge Modes: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Challenge-Mode
In short, both seem pretty viable - play what you are most comfortable with.

And a discussion on Clarity of Will usage: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ghts-with-disc

Have fun! <3

[Clamidiaa]

I do the CM's as holy and I'm having no trouble at all, I also run with a blood DK.

If you are going holy, don't EVER, I mean EVER use Prayer of Healing, it's the most worthless healing spell right now. The spell is literally a 1 mana to 1 heal conversion, it's that bad right now. So stay in serenty chakra and keep renews up. Also spec into your mindbender for the much needed mana back and always remember to use the bender early int he fight(within the first 15 seconds or so) so you can have him up a max amount of times for the fight for max mana. Last spell should be the middle one, the one with the extra prayer of healing, I can't remember the name right now (long night).

If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to message me, reply back or hit me up on my stream at http://www.twitch.tv/saltyclamslive . I haven't been on lately, but I will be on later tonight as well as the following week leading up to the raids and mythic for sure. I main Holy. Good Luck in what you decide.

[appro]

I do the CM's as holy and I'm having no trouble at all, I also run with a blood DK.

If you are going holy, don't EVER, I mean EVER use Prayer of Healing, it's the most worthless healing spell right now. The spell is literally a 1 mana to 1 heal conversion, it's that bad right now. So stay in serenty chakra and keep renews up. Also spec into your mindbender for the much needed mana back and always remember to use the bender early int he fight(within the first 15 seconds or so) so you can have him up a max amount of times for the fight for max mana. Last spell should be the middle one, the one with the extra prayer of healing, I can't remember the name right now (long night).

If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to message me, reply back or hit me up on my stream at http://www.twitch.tv/saltyclamslive . I haven't been on lately, but I will be on later tonight as well as the following week leading up to the raids and mythic for sure. I main Holy. Good Luck in what you decide.

This isn't very good advice.

Yes, PoH is an expensive spell but it still has its place - its great when used with 2x serendipity.
Don't use mindbender, Solace is far more mana return when used on CD.
Alternatively, on the same talent tier Surge of Light provides a nice throughput boost but scales better with a larger sized group than 5 man dungeons due to its infrequency to proc.

[Clamidiaa]

Yes, PoH is an expensive spell but it still has its place - its great when used with 2x serendipity.
Don't use mindbender, Solace is far more mana return when used on CD.
Alternatively, on the same talent tier Surge of Light provides a nice throughput boost but scales better with a larger sized group than 5 man dungeons due to its infrequency to proc.

PoH with 2x of serendipity could be good, sure. but it still only heals for 10-11k per person... Circle of healing heals for the same amount if not more, instant cast, while also using half the mana. The only time I have channeled PoH while on a boss fight was the first boss of UBRS when people are getting the trap/cage things.

Mindbender and Solace for mana backs is on the player. I go with mindbender because it allows me to place it on a target and forget about it almost, only 1 GCD that can be placed at the end of a cast. Solace you need to be aware of who you are targeting, and always make sure you use it on CD, sometimes when you don't even have a GCD to waste because the tank is going down.

I do agree with you on Surge of Light, much better spell for bigger groups because it has a higher chance to proc while in raids.

[Deleted]

I do the CM's as holy and I'm having no trouble at all, I also run with a blood DK.

If you are going holy, don't EVER, I mean EVER use Prayer of Healing, it's the most worthless healing spell right now. The spell is literally a 1 mana to 1 heal conversion, it's that bad right now. So stay in serenty chakra and keep renews up. Also spec into your mindbender for the much needed mana back and always remember to use the bender early int he fight(within the first 15 seconds or so) so you can have him up a max amount of times for the fight for max mana. Last spell should be the middle one, the one with the extra prayer of healing, I can't remember the name right now (long night).

If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to message me, reply back or hit me up on my stream at http://www.twitch.tv/saltyclamslive . I haven't been on lately, but I will be on later tonight as well as the following week leading up to the raids and mythic for sure. I main Holy. Good Luck in what you decide.

Ever heard of serendipity? If you're rolling renew on the party and keeping it refreshed with binding heal, if theres heavy aoe damage you can cast a 2stack poh.

Don't give someone bad advice to never use poh.

[Deleted]

The spell is literally a 1 mana to 1 heal conversion, it's that bad right now.

Nearer to 8HPM at 630 which is similar to Heal and Binding Heal. It has over three times the HPS of Heal even without Serendipity.

CoH isn't twice the HPS or HPM of PoH due to Spiritual Healing, but regardless it's on a 12 second cooldown.

[emni]

PoH with 2x of serendipity could be good, sure. but it still only heals for 10-11k per person... Circle of healing heals for the same amount if not more, instant cast, while also using half the mana. The only time I have channeled PoH while on a boss fight was the first boss of UBRS when people are getting the trap/cage things.

Channeled? Are you sure you aren't confusing PoH for Divine Hymn? It's true that CoH heals for pretty much the same as PoH, but with Serendipity and it being spammable, it's often an excellent choice if everyone is low and need to get their health up quickly.

I do agree with you on Surge of Light, much better spell for bigger groups because it has a higher chance to proc while in raids.

Again, what? In raids Solace is actually a much better choice because raid fights last so long that mana longevity becomes priority over raw throughput. SoL is an excellent choice for small groups.

Also as an addendum aren't you the same person who claimed 12% will GCD cap us? The more I read your posts the more I shake my head in disbelief.

[Deleted]

I found holy to be a red herring since it fools you it's easy on heroics because of its lavish throughput but enter a challenge mode and you realize that so called "lavish" throughput is just barely enough, and in that content it might just kill people because at this lowbie gear it can't just spam poh when shit hits the fan. Of course, some very dedicated holy priests might be able to pull it off. But I think disc is more reliable, but, only if you play it quite well, or at least predict some of the stuff for some of the time.


I find cow to be a niche since it mainly helps a tank. It becomes almost irrelevant when there is raid wide/group wide heavy damage and you must be the guy to fix it (5mans).

The specific niche though can be interesting sometimes. e.g. preshielding the tank 6-10 seconds before a pull can be a small difference or rarely when it allows it mid-fight.



PS. That "rarely" is very rarely in cm. It will be not that often you'll get to say "oh alright, plenty of time to stack that shield on that tank".

PPS. Most of the cases I saw that being applicable was when a tank used a cd, he was full health anyway (or I used suppression).

[emni]

I found holy to be a red herring since it fools you it's easy on heroics because of its lavish throughput but enter a challenge mode and you realize that so called "lavish" throughput is just barely enough, and in that content it might just kill people because at this lowbie gear it can't just spam poh when shit hits the fan. Of course, some very dedicated holy priests might be able to pull it off. But I think disc is more reliable, but, only if you play it quite well, or at least predict some of the stuff for some of the time.


I find cow to be a niche since it mainly helps a tank. It becomes almost irrelevant when there is raid wide/group wide heavy damage and you must be the guy to fix it (5mans).

The specific niche though can be interesting sometimes. e.g. preshielding the tank 6-10 seconds before a pull can be a small difference or rarely when it allows it mid-fight.

Spamming PoH? That's not at all how you AoE heal with holy. No wonder you are finding holy underwhelming if you cannot play it. Both specs are equally reliable if you know how to play them. Disc is currently in the lead in CMs due to the very nature of shields, but that doesn't mean that holy is a "red herring" or that it's lackluster in any way.

And FYI most of the top speed CM disc priests use Clarity of Will. Again, you seem to simply be mismanaging its use.

[Overdispersion]

Not that I'm sort of CM genious, considering we barely make silver (not that we're going for gold but w/e) but try to keep tank at 100% hp at all times with CoW and PW:S. Solace on CD and don't use offensive Penance if you can heal someone with it (it usually does 15% of my healing ), <5 stack archangel (is there a term for this?) during AoE if you don't have 5 stacks just for the PoH crit if you know the DA won't be wasted. Coordinate PS with tank so they don't overlap and get some Healing Tonics, they help a lot. PW:S people if you know it'll get absorbed. PI and Barrier for CD:s. HN seems useless and I usually only ProM the tank prepull after having capped CoW. Halo seems hard to position yourself for, so I just roll with DS and try to hit 4 targets with it (Holy Nova Sonar addon now somehow made itself useful for DS positioning) if PoH seems unnecessary.

[Deleted]

Spamming PoH? That's not at all how you AoE heal with holy. No wonder you are finding holy underwhelming if you cannot play it. Both specs are equally reliable if you know how to play them. Disc is currently in the lead in CMs due to the very nature of shields, but that doesn't mean that holy is a "red herring" or that it's lackluster in any way.

And FYI most of the top speed CM disc priests use Clarity of Will. Again, you seem to simply be mismanaging its use.

Sorry but that's a sad post. Not only you rant, attacking the poster, but you don't even know what you are talking about.

Explain to us how you are going to heal heavy 5man group-wide damage without PoH.

You've never been into skyreach challenge mode, have you?

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Not that I'm sort of CM genious, considering we barely make silver (not that we're going for gold but w/e) but try to keep tank at 100% hp at all times with CoW and PW:S. Solace on CD and don't use offensive Penance if you can heal someone with it (it usually does 15% of my healing ), <5 stack archangel (is there a term for this?) during AoE if you don't have 5 stacks just for the PoH crit if you know the DA won't be wasted. Coordinate PS with tank so they don't overlap and get some Healing Tonics, they help a lot. PW:S people if you know it'll get absorbed. PI and Barrier for CD:s. HN seems useless and I usually only ProM the tank prepull after having capped CoW. Halo seems hard to position yourself for, so I just roll with DS and try to hit 4 targets with it (Holy Nova Sonar addon now somehow made itself useful for DS positioning) if PoH seems unnecessary.

The thing with cow is that it's obvious it's amazing for a tank, but the defining factor is that it becomes very clunky once you have to heal the group (or more than a group).

At this moment I find it good before a pull, plus for 1 or 2 casts inside a fight, if the fight allows it.

Basically the fights that can use it easily after a pull, are about 1 in 8 or slightly more.

[Deleted]

Sorry but that's a sad post. Not only you rant, attacking the poster, but you don't even know what you are talking about.

Explain to us how you are going to heal heavy 5man group-wide damage without PoH.

You've never been into skyreach challenge mode, have you?

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The thing with cow is that it's obvious it's amazing for a tank, but the defining factor is that it becomes very clunky once you have to heal the group (or more than a group).

At this moment I find it good before a pull, plus for 1 or 2 casts inside a fight, if the fight allows it.

Basically the fights that can use it easily after a pull, are about 1 in 8 or slightly more.

Iam doing Silver Runs at the moment, depending on the Dayly.
I dont count 2nd boss in Skyreach into this, but in the other CMs , PWS and CoW are both my most used and "healed for" spells.

So if u are only using CoW on pull, then i wouldnt bother skilling it.
Iam casting this spell non-stop in CMs.


Greetings Declade

[Adhemar]

Explain to us how you are going to heal heavy 5man group-wide damage without PoH.

You've never been into skyreach challenge mode, have you?

The thing with cow is that it's obvious it's amazing for a tank, but the defining factor is that it becomes very clunky once you have to heal the group (or more than a group).

At this moment I find it good before a pull, plus for 1 or 2 casts inside a fight, if the fight allows it.

Basically the fights that can use it easily after a pull, are about 1 in 8 or slightly more.

Holy group healing without PoH: Lightwell (glyphed), renew on all 5 party members, binding heal to maintain renew (while in serenity), power word (usually on tank) on CD, SoL procs on tank or beam soakers, 2x serendipity heals on tanks or beam soakers. Divine hymn. Free PoMs from words of mending procs. If that's not enough, you're probably under geared or doing it wrong. You can use a couple PoH casts instead of heals with serendipity procs, but you'll be OOM fast using it more than absolutely necessary.

CoW: No, you're nuts. CoW is my third most used spell in CMs after PW:S and Penance. Sure, FH is better throughout, it's also a guaranteed way to go OOM. Take UBRS, for example. First boss: PW:S tank when possible, spam CoW and use Pennance on CD to maintain his health bar, PW:S melee before his AoE and entire group before traps activate. Only use FH to fix standing in bad or taking too long during AoE pulses. Second boss: pre-shield, use CDs and FH as necessary to keep tank alive while burning first add, begin weaving CoW in while second add dies and transition completely to PW:S, Penance and CoW when second add dies. Third boss: oh, who cares, he's stupid since the hotfix. Fourth boss: PW:S, Penance and CoW the tank, use either Penance or FH to fix DPS boo-boos, rebuild full CoW shield during engulfing flames. Fifth: CoW and PW:S the tank, Penance to counter her random weapon throw on DPS during phase 1. Do whatever you have to to keep people alive while the adds get killed, then PW:S and Penance while moving and CoW whenever you're sitting still for phase 2. That's heavy CoW usage on every fight in the instance, not 1 of 8. That's probably 1/8th of all CM fights, right there, in fact.

In anything but the most intense tank damage phases, applying PW:S gives you enough time to cast a CoW and then you can usually just keep it rolling by weaving PW:S and Penance in. This is my standard "rotation" and it only deviates for special cases (it's actually quite boring, but that's another topic). Pre-pull? CoW. Got an AoE stun on that trash pack? CoW. Mob is winding up a long cast or using a dodgeable frontal cone ability? CoW. Tank has >90% health, an absorb and active mitigation up? CoW some more.

I'm actually starting to hate the spell because I'm using it so much.

I think you say "clunky" when you mean "I don't like it" and I don't think you really understand these mechanics.

[Simulacrum]

Explain to us how you are going to heal heavy 5man group-wide damage without PoH.

You've never been into skyreach challenge mode, have you?

Unlike disc, holy has renew.

Maybe it didn't show up on your hotbars after you repsecced, but for the rest of us it's definitely there.

[Deleted]

I think you say "clunky" when you mean "I don't like it" and I don't think you really understand these mechanics.

I think by clunky, the implication is that it doesn't have much in the way of synergy with procs outside of PW:S reducing the cast time. It is also a pretty boring and uninspired spell but I'm going to eat all my previous complaints about it. Despite it being dull, it is an excellent spell and almost essential for making Discipline viable in challenging 5 man content.

I thought I'd miss Atonement but I'm happier with CoW. I feel like such a treacherous bitch saying that but yeah. CoW is good.

[Deleted]

I think by clunky, the implication is that it doesn't have much in the way of synergy with procs outside of PW:S reducing the cast time. It is also a pretty boring and uninspired spell but I'm going to eat all my previous complaints about it. Despite it being dull, it is an excellent spell and almost essential for making Discipline viable in challenging 5 man content.

I thought I'd miss Atonement but I'm happier with CoW. I feel like such a treacherous bitch saying that but yeah. CoW is good.

CoW is good, no doubt about it. However you do touch a interesting subject which is very important; synergy.
Synergy makes a spec fun to play, because you feel like everything fits perfectly together. As the definition:

noun, plural synergies.
the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions, etc.; synergism.

In my point of view, discipline lacks some synergy at the moment (compared to say, Holy), however that does not you will have problems healing as it. You can do fine as both holy and discipline, my only concern right now about discipline is synergy.

[Deleted]

CoW is good, no doubt about it. However you do touch a interesting subject which is very important; synergy.
Synergy makes a spec fun to play, because you feel like everything fits perfectly together. As the definition:

noun, plural synergies.
the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions, etc.; synergism.

In my point of view, discipline lacks some synergy at the moment (compared to say, Holy), however that does not you will have problems healing as it. You can do fine as both holy and discipline, my only concern right now about discipline is synergy.

I dont know why i keep reading about this "must have" synergy. Sure the disci doesnt have the same synergy as a holy, BUT
1.) better CDs for CMs (DH is just useless in my opinion(in CMS!!))
2.) the combo : (when Penance is on cd) PW:S -> FH -> CoW and the tank/lowtarget should be at a save point again or use PW:S ->Penance->CoW.
3.) emp. AA + POH/FH is kind of nice comb. To speak from synergy would be a little bit to much, but it does its job, would u want more.

The only bad thing about CoW is the huge casting time. Shorten it with PW:S + have a total shield of 100k noncrit is kind of powerful synergy(on its own way).

The point of playing disci in CMs is: let the group slowly drop, till the fights end. If u try to keep all of them at maxhp und should maybe change spec.
Thats why CoW is such an huge spell.

Greetings

Declade

[Deleted]

I dont know why i keep reading about this "must have" synergy. Sure the disci doesnt have the same synergy as a holy, BUT
1.) better CDs for CMs (DH is just useless in my opinion(in CMS!!))
2.) the combo : (when Penance is on cd) PW:S -> FH -> CoW and the tank/lowtarget should be at a save point again or use PW:S ->Penance->CoW.
3.) emp. AA + POH/FH is kind of nice comb. To speak from synergy would be a little bit to much, but it does its job, would u want more.

The only bad thing about CoW is the huge casting time. Shorten it with PW:S + have a total shield of 100k noncrit is kind of powerful synergy(on its own way).

People are talking about synergy, because, as I wrote before, it makes a spec fun to play. Synergy has nothing to do with being good or bad HPS wise.

[Deleted]

you're nuts.

I find it interesting that to get any information out of this forum you have to be yelled at and personally attacked *occasionally on private messages too. If you ask politely you are being ignored. It's as if some people live to be in conflict.


PS. It's also sad that the most frequent posters of the stickies also yell at each other whenever they have new information and then stop talking otherwise.


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Holy group healing without PoH: Lightwell (glyphed), renew on all 5 party members, binding heal to maintain renew (while in serenity), power word (usually on tank) on CD, SoL procs on tank or beam soakers, 2x serendipity heals on tanks or beam soakers. Divine hymn. Free PoMs from words of mending procs. If that's not enough, you're probably under geared or doing it wrong. You can use a couple PoH casts instead of heals with serendipity procs, but you'll be OOM fast using it more than absolutely necessary.

CoW: No, you're nuts. CoW is my third most used spell in CMs after PW:S and Penance. Sure, FH is better throughout, it's also a guaranteed way to go OOM. Take UBRS, for example. First boss: PW:S tank when possible, spam CoW and use Pennance on CD to maintain his health bar, PW:S melee before his AoE and entire group before traps activate. Only use FH to fix standing in bad or taking too long during AoE pulses. Second boss: pre-shield, use CDs and FH as necessary to keep tank alive while burning first add, begin weaving CoW in while second add dies and transition completely to PW:S, Penance and CoW when second add dies. Third boss: oh, who cares, he's stupid since the hotfix. Fourth boss: PW:S, Penance and CoW the tank, use either Penance or FH to fix DPS boo-boos, rebuild full CoW shield during engulfing flames. Fifth: CoW and PW:S the tank, Penance to counter her random weapon throw on DPS during phase 1. Do whatever you have to to keep people alive while the adds get killed, then PW:S and Penance while moving and CoW whenever you're sitting still for phase 2. That's heavy CoW usage on every fight in the instance, not 1 of 8. That's probably 1/8th of all CM fights, right there, in fact.

In anything but the most intense tank damage phases, applying PW:S gives you enough time to cast a CoW and then you can usually just keep it rolling by weaving PW:S and Penance in. This is my standard "rotation" and it only deviates for special cases (it's actually quite boring, but that's another topic). Pre-pull? CoW. Got an AoE stun on that trash pack? CoW. Mob is winding up a long cast or using a dodgeable frontal cone ability? CoW. Tank has >90% health, an absorb and active mitigation up? CoW some more.

I'm actually starting to hate the spell because I'm using it so much.

I think you say "clunky" when you mean "I don't like it" and I don't think you really understand these mechanics.

That would make some sense if it wasn't completely nonsense about the last boss of ubrs. If you try to imply you can do "heavy usage of cow" in there, you are not fooling anyone.

Unless maybe your group is amazing and it never gets burned on anything.

That might be a possibility, but that wouldn't need a good healer anyway.




It's indeed quite ironic that some self-proclaimed "pro" healers always imply that their group never does mistakes.

Of course, since the damage will be much lower than in most groups, it needs sub-par healing in that case.

Which is an irony on their claim about their pro healing. Anyone can just spam cow on a low dmg group.