Crane stance not viable

[Deleted]

So after reading the last "nerf" to WW monks, completly normal, we were too stronk, the nerf also afects the fistweaving, it might not be much but realy?

We are pretty bad in 5man stuff, and healing with Crane stance was only viable in 2-3 bosses, now it wont be usefull even in those...

We need a small buff not a nerf

[MrCool]

Crane stance sucks. They killed offensive healer fantasy in the WoD pre-patch, both in PvE and PvP.

It can only be used to cheese mana tea stacks at beginning of raid boss encounters.

^ Once this gets fixed/nerfed (of course it will), Crane stance only purpose will be for (painful) leveling/soloing if you don't have AGI gear, or preventing you from falling asleep when you grossly overgear dungeons.

[Supliftz]

No.

Crane Stance is still extremely powerful. Imo it still needs nerfs/changes.

[DarthMonk79]

How does crane stance suck? I was just in a dungeon earlier today where the healer was a crane stance monk. He kept everyone up easy and was actually the #2 dps behind my ret pally. Did somewhere around 7.4k dps in a Bloodmaul. Learn to play your class correct and adapt to the changes before you say something sucks or got nerfed bad. As for raids, only raid currently out right now is the anniversary MC so I don't know where you are comparing it in raiding unless you're still doing SoO.

[Deleted]

How does crane stance suck? I was just in a dungeon earlier today where the healer was a crane stance monk. He kept everyone up easy and was actually the #2 dps behind my ret pally. Did somewhere around 7.4k dps in a Bloodmaul. Learn to play your class correct and adapt to the changes before you say something sucks or got nerfed bad. As for raids, only raid currently out right now is the anniversary MC so I don't know where you are comparing it in raiding unless you're still doing SoO.

This!

Learn to play your class correct and adapt to the changes before you say something sucks or got nerfed bad.

Couldnt say it better

[MrCool]

How does crane stance suck? I was just in a dungeon earlier today where the healer was a crane stance monk. He kept everyone up easy and was actually the #2 dps behind my ret pally. Did somewhere around 7.4k dps in a Bloodmaul. Learn to play your class correct and adapt to the changes before you say something sucks or got nerfed bad. As for raids, only raid currently out right now is the anniversary MC so I don't know where you are comparing it in raiding unless you're still doing SoO.

So what? In your anecdotal dungeon run, you had offhealing (since you said you were playing ret) and the monk overgeared the content.
Raid evidence comes from beta and Blizzcon live raids. Crane stance is only worthwhile to abuse mana tea.

No.

Crane Stance is still extremely powerful. Imo it still needs nerfs/changes.

Wut? Are we even playing the same game?
Have you ever tried using Crane stance in PvP in WoD? Or CMs?
Crane stance might have niche uses on specific bosses despite its clunkiness, or mobs that deal low damage, but that doesn't cut it, and this doesn't work for PVP. Maybe I'm asking for too much?

More generally speaking, everytime I see one of your posts, you always say that "MW are very strong right now" but you seem to forget that having strong numbers is meaningless if the class gameplay feels badly designed and clunky.

[Entropy]

So what? In your anecdotal dungeon run, you had offhealing (since you said you were playing ret) and the monk overgeared the content.
Raid evidence comes from beta and Blizzcon live raids. Crane stance is only worthwhile to abuse mana tea.



Wut? Are we even playing the same game?
Have you ever tried using Crane stance in PvP in WoD? Or CMs?
Crane stance might have niche uses on specific bosses despite its clunkiness, or mobs that deal low damage, but that doesn't cut it, and this doesn't work for PVP. Maybe I'm asking for too much?

More generally speaking, everytime I see one of your posts, you always say that "MW are very strong right now" but you seem to forget that having strong numbers is meaningless if the class gameplay feels badly designed and clunky.

Why would I want unlimited free mana and the ability to do 15/16k+ dps

That is basically what u are saying atm.

[MrCool]

Why would I want unlimited free mana and the ability to do 15/16k+ dps

That is basically what u are saying atm.

If that wasn't clear enough, I don't give a damn about numbers and I'm mostly PVP focused.
Fine to me if Crane is tuned with 50% dmg / 50% healing in mind.
And I don't like the fact that Crane is mana efficient, thank you very much.

What I'm concerned about, is the huge amount of crappy design that went into the MW WoD monk overhaul.
Crane stance can't work at all in PVP, that basic fact ruins the spec to me, MW has nothing else to bring in that environment. No survivability, no CC, no utility. Damage used to be a niche, and it's just unusable in PVP: stupid GCD cost, huge risk not keeping up with healing, being kited all day (thus unable to do any eminence healing) and of course being melee healer in the first place is just asking to be beaten up.

Now dragonslayers can go on and on telling Crane is sooooo strong for this boss / trash mob, because said boss / mob is scripted to have a low damage phase and that's perfectly predictable, you just have to L2P, know the boss and anticipate (or more mundanely, just overgear the content). Guess what, this doesn't work for the other half of the game, PVP.

[Entropy]

If that wasn't clear enough, I don't give a damn about numbers and I'm mostly PVP focused.
Fine to me if Crane is tuned with 50% dmg / 50% healing in mind.
And I don't like the fact that Crane is mana efficient, thank you very much.

What I'm concerned about, is the huge amount of crappy design that went into the MW WoD monk overhaul.
Crane stance can't work at all in PVP, that basic fact ruins the spec to me, MW has nothing else to bring in that environment. No survivability, no CC, no utility. Damage used to be a niche, and it's just unusable in PVP: stupid GCD cost, huge risk not keeping up with healing, being kited all day (thus unable to do any eminence healing) and of course being melee healer in the first place is just asking to be beaten up.

Now dragonslayers can go on and on telling Crane is sooooo strong for this boss / trash mob, because said boss / mob is scripted to have a low damage phase and that's perfectly predictable, you just have to L2P, know the boss and anticipate (or more mundanely, just overgear the content). Guess what, this doesn't work for the other half of the game, PVP.

Crane did not // never will work in serious arena either. You were not and still wont be able to pump out enough heals to keep someone alive. That and you would need to constantly placing ur statue to make it almost be some what worth it. You could/can pop xuen and crackled some niggas for like 3 seconds, but you will never end up going full crane, that is just stupid


Neither of the healer classes have done that, ever.


Sry the class no longer has an orb bot to carry you dog. Maybe reroll.

[Deleted]

Crane stance seems to do exactly what it should, 50/50 damage/healing. When doing MC though (not a good test, but at least a raid environment), my healing was definitely competitive and way more than 50% most times. Depending on if I could get my statue close to everyone, or if they kept moving away.

It's definitely not enough for 5 man content though. I've tried healing heroics/CMs in crane stance before, and unless you stop and spam Surging Mist (why would you even bother with crane stance then?), you will not keep up with tank damage - or heavy AoE for that matter. We kinda suck for heavy AoE even as mistweavers though since we're lacking cooldowns between "OH SHIT!" and "ALL FINE!", but at least we can cope. Sure, if we get everyone standing on top of eachother so we can weave in SCK/RJW it's much easier.

As a complete side note... they need to reduce our extreme positional requirement compared to other healers. Healing spheres, chi burst, SCK/RJW. It's really stupid that people should need to play completely different with us than with other healers. Sure, shamans got healing rain, but it's 12 yards now (unless it's back down to 10 again) and can be placed whereever within 40 yards and doesn't pacify them meanwhile, like SCK does.
I'm pretty sure we're strong if people constantly tries to hug us, and picks up every healing orb they see, or at least stay within 12 yards of them when they expire. But... uh... no, that won't happen, will it...

[MrCool]

Crane did not // never will work in serious arena either. You were not and still wont be able to pump out enough heals to keep someone alive. That and you would need to constantly placing ur statue to make it almost be some what worth it. You could/can pop xuen and crackled some niggas for like 3 seconds, but you will never end up going full crane, that is just stupid

Ugh, of course you can't PVP while siting in Crane stance full time and expect it to work. I never said I wanted that to be viable.
What I said is that it's NOT usable AT ALL because it's just not worth it, ever. Too time consuming (2 GCD to switch in/out). Too much risk (can't hit your target, lolol no snare). You can't ever, ever, use Crane stance in PVP. Hence half of monk toolkit is worthless and class design is fail.

Sry the class no longer has an orb bot to carry you dog. Maybe reroll.

You don't have to be rude.

[Deleted]

I can't understand why some of you people are saying its OP. Sure in a world where DPS don't get hit by stuff they are not meant to and use cd's at the right times it would be great.

However in your average LFG that does not happen I don't give a crap what you say it won't happen that you will be able to keep the group up using crane. The DPS is pretty nice though I do 17k - 18k DPS on boss fights (at the finish that is) but you 100% can't heal many of the dungeons as crane (unless your a premade or get a very decent group).

[Supliftz]

I can't understand why some of you people are saying its OP. Sure in a world where DPS don't get hit by stuff they are not meant to and use cd's at the right times it would be great.

However in your average LFG that does not happen I don't give a crap what you say it won't happen that you will be able to keep the group up using crane. The DPS is pretty nice though I do 17k - 18k DPS on boss fights (at the finish that is) but you 100% can't heal many of the dungeons as crane (unless your a premade or get a very decent group).

This is 100% intended. You shouldn't be able to crane heal through challenging content.

Also fyi, overtuned numbers completely outweighs clunky class mechanics.

[Rockets]

I can't understand why some of you people are saying its OP. Sure in a world where DPS don't get hit by stuff they are not meant to and use cd's at the right times it would be great.

However in your average LFG that does not happen I don't give a crap what you say it won't happen that you will be able to keep the group up using crane. The DPS is pretty nice though I do 17k - 18k DPS on boss fights (at the finish that is) but you 100% can't heal many of the dungeons as crane (unless your a premade or get a very decent group).

Yes, if you want to try and carry a bad group then you will need to actually go full healing.

[Volibear]

Yes, if you want to try and carry a bad group then you will need to actually go full healing.

Even with a good group, you will not be able to full-time heal in Crane.

Crane is for low damage phases in raids, or at the start of a fight to cheese mana tea.

[Skizzlok]

The only time I have trouble healing in crane stance is on a fight with heavy tank damage or when people stand in poo.

[MrCool]

This is 100% intended. You shouldn't be able to crane heal through challenging content.

As long as there are still windows of opportunity to use it skillfully in challenging content that's fine by me.
Abusing Crane stance for mana when fight starts is bad design to me and needs to be nerfed.
On the other hand, MW should be able to seamlessly switch into Crane stance when an opportunity arises, without paying huge GCD cost. This breaks most windows of opportunity and is completely unusable in PVP.

Also fyi, overtuned numbers completely outweighs clunky class mechanics.

This is madness.
This is a game, not Wall Street. Fun class mechanics >>>> numbers. Anyone with basic understanding in Game Design should strive to come up with good game mechanics and then focus on balance, you know why? Because game design is art, and numbers tuning is stupid easy math.

[Volibear]

"If you don't like the class mechanics, maybe the class just isn't for you" - Celestalon

[Speedy92286]

Crane is amazing snd perhaps slightly op. In dungeons on single mobs/low damage phases crane is fun to use. Not only do you get mana tea (never go oom on bosses even if tank chain pulls) but you do decent dps. Crane does exactly what it is supposed to; like others have said. You just have to learn when you can use it in heroics. In raids it will be even better because you are not the only healer so you can pump out some mana tea during bloodlust/burn phases or when people are stacked. Oh and touch of death damage heals for waaaay too much. Abuse that on bosses with low health. Just practice and note durung fights where people do not take damage.

[MrCool]

"If you don't like the class mechanics, maybe the class just isn't for you" - Celestalon

It's not "I don't like the class mechanics."

It's : "I don't like the class mechanics, they have obvious flaws that need to be fixed, hence negative feedback / criticism."
That's very different.