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  1. #81
    Immortal Stormspark's Avatar
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    I've always thought that warlocks, mages, rogues, and hunters should get bumped ahead of all of the hybrid classes in the DPS queue. Classes that can either tank, heal, or both, but choose not to. Well those 4 have NO choice, they can only queue as DPS.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I'm sure every DPS who has the opportunity to queue with a tank or healer friend does when they can, but it's not always feasible.

    This is especially true right now when not a lot of people are gearing alts because they're all focused on preparing their raiding toons, which means a raid's worth of DPS is fighting to queue with just two tanks. Two tanks who are probably sick of being everyone's instaqueue monkeys.
    They are. But this is the best time to dust off your offspec and get tanking/healing. Especially for tanks... the gear is almost the same as your dps gear. Might as well shorten the queue times for everyone and start tanking.

    This doesn't help rogues, mages and the other pure dps classes, of course... but really, many of the people complaining are not the pure dps classes, they're hybrids who could tank but don't want to. Well then... don't. But you're setting yourself up for a longer wait that way. *shrug*

    The alternative is far, far worse...
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  3. #83
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    They are. But this is the best time to dust off your offspec and get tanking/healing. Especially for tanks... the gear is almost the same as your dps gear. Might as well shorten the queue times for everyone and start tanking.

    This doesn't help rogues, mages and the other pure dps classes, of course... but really, many of the people complaining are not the pure dps classes, they're hybrids who could tank but don't want to. Well then... don't. But you're setting yourself up for a longer wait that way. *shrug*

    The alternative is far, far worse...
    As you said, that doesn't help the many people who play pure DPS classes, which is four out of the eleven classes in game, and also some of the most popular classes in terms of numbers.

    Additionally, I am not sure shorter queues would be worth the influx of more super incompetent tanks and healers created by telling hybrid class DPSers to switch roles. There's enough lousy people in LFD. I don't really want a healer who has no idea what he's doing, so if that guy prefers to play as DPS I think everyone is better off if he does.

    To be clear, I dislike the long DPS queue -- especially as someone with limited play hours -- but I also acknowledge there's not a whole lot that can be done about it. I'm realistic to know there isn't some magic solution that is going to turn my DPS queues short just because I whined a lot. But I also don't see the problem with discussing it, especially because it can be frustrating.


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  4. #84
    Actually, I see a solution. You need to increase the number of required tanks to reflect the ratios properly. This is something that's been in my head since vanilla. If you have a 20m raid, you can split it up easily into 4 groups... 1 Tank, 1 Heal, 2 Ranged, 1 Melee would be an ideal theoretical setup. So scale that up and have raids with 4 Tanks, 4 Heals, 8 Ranged and 4 Melees.

    That doesn't happen, because Blizzard really, really doesn't know what to do with Tanks in raid encounters. Tanks are bored out of their mind as it is, having 4 of those would need some serious mental adjustments on how to approach encounter design.
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  5. #85
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    Terrible tanks or healers shouldn't really be able to queue because you need at least Proving Grounds Silver as that role. However, I do belive that this requirement should be Gold instead but even with Silver I've thus far had -zero- terrible groups. The worst player was some moonkin doing around 7000 DPS and never interrupting but if that's the worst player ever, not very worrying. Haven't encountered a single bad healer.

    Really, if you are a pure DPS player and complain about the queues, maybe you should not have picked a pure DPS spec or maybe you should only have done so if you have friends able to queue with you.

  6. #86
    This is why I miss MoP-style scenarios. Instant queues, and over with the dungeon in 15 minutes.

  7. #87
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Actually, I see a solution. You need to increase the number of required tanks to reflect the ratios properly. This is something that's been in my head since vanilla. If you have a 20m raid, you can split it up easily into 4 groups... 1 Tank, 1 Heal, 2 Ranged, 1 Melee would be an ideal theoretical setup. So scale that up and have raids with 4 Tanks, 4 Heals, 8 Ranged and 4 Melees.

    That doesn't happen, because Blizzard really, really doesn't know what to do with Tanks in raid encounters. Tanks are bored out of their mind as it is, having 4 of those would need some serious mental adjustments on how to approach encounter design.
    It's because there really is no way to make good content that consistently requires four tanks. You might be able to have the occasional fight that warrants it, but not every boss. You couldn't make a tank swap mechanic so brutal that you would need four tanks on the same boss, it would make it a wipefest with absolutely zero room for anything short of perfection. You can't have every fight be Four Horsemen style. Ultimately, it's good class distribution or good raid content, pick one.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Akaihiryuu View Post
    I've always thought that warlocks, mages, rogues, and hunters should get bumped ahead of all of the hybrid classes in the DPS queue. Classes that can either tank, heal, or both, but choose not to. Well those 4 have NO choice, they can only queue as DPS.
    That reminds me of the "hybrid tax*" and people used to argue like that in the hybrid tax discussion as well, and it was wrong then and it is wrong now.

    *"Hybrid Tax" for those who don't know: "Pure" DPS classes dealt more damage to compensate for less flexibility. That concept does not exist anymore in wow.


    The problem is, that healer and tank have more responsibility and more stress. And usually, players don't show appreciation for someone taking that responsibility. Usually they expect tanks and healers to be better geared and make less mistakes.

    When you give queue-priority to classes that can not take one of those responsibility-roles, you reward them for avoiding responsibility. It won't make more warriors tank. It will make people who want to dps chose a class that is better for dealing damage, for example a rogue instead of a furywarrior and a warlock instead of a shadowpriest, which only decreases the number of players that could take the responsibility-role. Players will always take the easiest and least responsible way.
    Last edited by Astray; 2014-12-02 at 08:52 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Artefacts:
    • In ordner to better fit the current post-truth zeitgeist, we are going to rename alle occurences of "artefact" into "artebelieve".

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