Guns, cops and different perspectives.

[Animalhouse]

Cops are not judge nor jury therefore should be held accountable for murder when using a firearm. Whatever your views on the death penalty may be, it's impossible to argue that some trumped-up ignorant macho-man in the heat of the testosterone-fueled moment has the deductive or reasoning power to hand down a death sentence - just think.. who the fuck becomes a cop? Testosterbros who couldn't make it doing anything else and want to have some power over people - letting them have guns is just letting them feel that much more macho and in control.

Cops should not carry guns because a basic police officer has no right to use a gun on a citizen, to carry them is to inflate their ego and self-importance. Provide me with statistics showing that having a gun does anything but make crimes more violent and have worse outcomes or I say riot and burn!

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The longer a cop is on the force the more he is accustomed to demanding you to jump and you to ask "how high". I have never been protected by a police officer nor has anyone I know. I have been threatened by ignorant police that know little about the law MANY times. Growing up in Mohave County in AZ, there is a huge problem with the sheriffs department. It is the 5th largest county in the US and they have a small army of under-trained, ignorant power hungry fools. They also have a very high turnover rate. I have been harassed on numerous occasions. None of these pricks should have guns.
Most cops can't even be trusted to use tasers.

I do not agree with the riot and burn BS. That solves nothing except for justify police carry firearms.

[Vyxn]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The longer a cop is on the force the more he is accustomed to demanding you to jump and you to ask "how high". I have never been protected by a police officer nor has anyone I know. I have been threatened by ignorant police that know little about the law MANY times. Growing up in Mohave County in AZ, there is a huge problem with the sheriffs department. It is the 5th largest county in the US and they have a small army of under-trained, ignorant power hungry fools. They also have a very high turnover rate. I have been harassed on numerous occasions. None of these pricks should have guns.
Most cops can't even be trusted to use tasers.

you haven't been protected that you know of . but we can do a little experiment to prove how wrong you are let the police in your town and city just all pack up and leave and then you will be able to notice the protection they provide

nobody gives a second thought about what police do for a community until they aren't there to do it any more. Im going to suggest that all police nation wide take a week off and the public will soon come to a better understanding and appreciation of what the police do

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I find it woefully ignorant and hypocritical that you cant stereotype and profile a race because of a few bad apple in that race you cant stereotype and profile a religion because of a few bad apple in that religion but you sure in the hell can with the police

[Animalhouse]

you haven't been protected that you know of . but we can do a little experiment to prove how wrong you are let the police in your town and city just all pack up and leave and then you will be able to notice the protection they provide

nobody gives a second thought about what police do for a community until they aren't there to do it any more. Im going to suggest that all police nation wide take a week off and the public will soon come to a better understanding and appreciation of what the police do

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I find it woefully ignorant and hypocritical that you cant stereotype and profile a race because of a few bad apple in that race you cant stereotype and profile a religion because of a few bad apple in that religion but you sure in the hell can with the police

You damn right I can, I have had many instances...the events I have spoken about are not isolated. I could tell you story after story. Hell, I was married to a cop for 9 years.

Be my guest, have them take a year off for all I care.

[Endus]

wrong again if poverty was the leading cause of a higher crime rate then the crime rate for whites would be higher because there are more whites in poverty then blacks

Either you don't understand what "rate" means, or you're being deliberately dishonest. Which is it?

it is a dishonest comparison because none of those studies use the same starting point the poor in America lives as well as the middle class in most of those other countries

What you just said is objectively false. The poor in the USA do not live anything like a middle class lifestyle in other nations. I have no idea where you got that ludicrous idea. All you're doing here is projecting straight-up American exceptionalism as if that were somehow an argument, rather than the jingoistic nonsense that it is.

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I find it woefully ignorant and hypocritical that you cant stereotype and profile a race because of a few bad apple in that race you cant stereotype and profile a religion because of a few bad apple in that religion but you sure in the hell can with the police

Nobody is born a police officer. It's a profession they choose, and are (supposedly) rigorously trained for. The entire point of a police force is to comprehensively standardize the behaviour of officers, down to wearing a uniform.

Plus, we're talking about a police force that is explicitly supporting this officer's behaviour. If you disagree with his behaviour, then the police force supporting it is clearly going to get targeted as well, because they are supporting it. There's a clear difference between making judgements of some person or institution based on the actual things they individually do or support, and making judgements of someone based on a completely superficial resemblance to some completely unrelated issue, which is the case with racism and religious hatred.

[Khoranth]

Socioeconomics have a strong correlation with where you live. And you're ignoring that while the absolute numbers may be comparable between ethnic groups, the numbers you cited earlier were by relative values, as a proportion of their group. There are far fewer African-Americans, and they are much more likely to be of a lower socioeconomic class, on average, because of the centuries of oppression they faced as a group. Nothing you said here actually contradicts the point; it's just an attempt to play misleading statistical games with the data to misrepresent the facts.

You seemed to have missed my entire point. The point was that being poor is not the dominant factor leading to high crime rates; I was juxtaposing two groups of poor people, and showing how location matters.

You cannot just cry "they are poor, that explains everything"; that is 100% incorrect. Living in cities, controlled by drug cartels and drug gangs has a huge impact on crime rates. Drug cartels and drug gangs do not have near the influence in trailer parks as they do in cities. Being poor is a factor, but the lower crime rates of poor who do not live in cities clearly shows that the location, and close proximity to drug cartels and drug gangs is playing a bigger role in high crime rates than being poor.

[Themius]

You seemed to have missed my entire point. The point was that being poor is not the dominant factor leading to high crime rates; I was juxtaposing two groups of poor people, and showing how location matters.

You cannot just cry "they are poor, that explains everything"; that is 100% incorrect. Living in cities, controlled by drug cartels and drug gangs has a huge impact on crime rates. Drug cartels and drug gangs do not have near the influence in trailer parks as they do in cities. Being poor is a factor, but the lower crime rates of poor who do not live in cities clearly shows that the location, and close proximity to drug cartels and drug gangs is playing a bigger role in high crime rates than being poor.

Poor black and poor white neighborhoods had very similar violent crime rates... so... there is that.

[Khoranth]

Poor black and poor white neighborhoods had very similar violent crime rates... so... there is that.

I'm not trying to compare skin color, because i do not think skin color makes someone more likely to commit crime. I am trying to compare location. Specifically cities and trailer parks. The skin color does not matter, i believe cities would have a higher crime rate if it was all white, and trailer parks lower, if all black.

It is my belief that skin color does not make someone more likely to murder people, I also believe that being poor, while a factor, is not the dominant factor. The dominant factor is living in close proximity to drug gangs and cartels.

[Themius]

I'm not trying to compare skin color, because i do not think skin color makes someone more likely to commit crime. I am trying to compare location. Specifically cities and trailer parks. The skin color does not matter, i believe cities would have a higher crime rate if it was all white, and trailer parks lower, if all black.

It is my belief that skin color does not make someone more likely to murder people, I also believe that being poor, while a factor, is not the dominant factor. The dominant factor is living in close proximity to drug gangs and cartels.

New York city has one of lowest crime indexes of cities. On top of this New York City has lower per capita crime than many smaller cities, towns, and the like.

[Annoying]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The longer a cop is on the force the more he is accustomed to demanding you to jump and you to ask "how high". I have never been protected by a police officer nor has anyone I know. I have been threatened by ignorant police that know little about the law MANY times. Growing up in Mohave County in AZ, there is a huge problem with the sheriffs department. It is the 5th largest county in the US and they have a small army of under-trained, ignorant power hungry fools. They also have a very high turnover rate. I have been harassed on numerous occasions. None of these pricks should have guns.
Most cops can't even be trusted to use tasers.

I do not agree with the riot and burn BS. That solves nothing except for justify police carry firearms.

It appears you had/have some misconception about what police officers are for. They aren't there to protect you. They exist only to enforce laws.

[Spectral]

Ohio state university looked into this.

Yeah, that's the only real work I'd found that had been done on it. There's a couple problems; the first and most obvious is that extrapolating across the nation based on Columbus is iffy. It might be right, it's definitely a data point, but it's not really very good in terms of moving the proverbial Bayesian needle.

The other issue (or maybe it's not an issue, but it's a thing to note) is that they're dealing with neighborhoods here rather than individual statistics. I don't know what effect this would or wouldn't have.

[Vyxn]

Poor black and poor white neighborhoods had very similar violent crime rates... so... there is that.

wrong
W. Virginia is one of the poorest states with a poverty rate of about 18% national average is 12.5%. its make up is 95% white 3.5% black and only 5 other states have a lower violent crime rate

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Either you don't understand what "rate" means, or you're being deliberately dishonest. Which is it?



What you just said is objectively false. The poor in the USA do not live anything like a middle class lifestyle in other nations. I have no idea where you got that ludicrous idea. All you're doing here is projecting straight-up American exceptionalism as if that were somehow an argument, rather than the jingoistic nonsense that it is.

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Nobody is born a police officer. It's a profession they choose, and are (supposedly) rigorously trained for. The entire point of a police force is to comprehensively standardize the behaviour of officers, down to wearing a uniform.

Plus, we're talking about a police force that is explicitly supporting this officer's behaviour. If you disagree with his behaviour, then the police force supporting it is clearly going to get targeted as well, because they are supporting it. There's a clear difference between making judgements of some person or institution based on the actual things they individually do or support, and making judgements of someone based on a completely superficial resemblance to some completely unrelated issue, which is the case with racism and religious hatred.

religion is by choice but you cant stereotype or profile that

[Deleted]

These are not disconnected things. Part of the very reason that America has such a crime problem is the ready access to weapons and the overall take on individualism that has led to things like Castle Doctrine and so forth. It encourages a culture that is somewhat more violent and internally antagonistic.


No, it proves it's an economic thing. Crime has high correlations with poverty and wealth inequality rates, it has negligible to nonexistent correlation with ethnicity once those factors are accounted for.



You are vastly overstating the problem, in the US.

And Canadian cities aren't exactly without problems of that sort. Vancouver has had issues with Japanese and Chinese gangs pushing in from overseas, Canada as a whole had a fairly widespread issue with the Hell's Angels, and so forth. Our crime rates are still almost as low as Scandinavia's. The risk of death to violence in the USA is insanely high for a developed nation that is not suffering an internal armed revolution or military invasion.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...ce/by-country/

There's an interactive map based on the WHO 2011 data, for rates of violent death per country.

Israel is lower than the USA, despite the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Syria, which saw the start of their violence in this same year, is lower than the USA (it might be higher now, but the conflict's stepped up, and then we'd be comparing the USA to an actual war zone).

The USA has a serious issue with violence. And it isn't something being pushed on them by external groups; it's an American issue.

So, you believe that buddhists are very rich, and that muslims are very poor? And that football fans in UK are poor, and football fans in Japan are rich? Hooligans are a subculture, but why does it appear in only some countries? And it has been a long time since there was a buddhist terrorist attack - actually, was there ever a buddhist terrorist attack? Obviously, not all muslims are terrorists, but virtually all terrorists are muslims. Breivik would be a notable exception.

Guns are not the cause of crime, but consequence. If I lived in place where buddhists or muslims or pastafarians were decapitating innocent people on the street ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...urt-hears.html ) I would surely try and minimize the risk to me and my loved ones.

By the way... in my country of origin, there are problems with gypsies. They remain in their inferiour culture; they are allowed to NOT send children to school. Simply giving them money does not help at all. They like to live in slums, and they were given nice flats. Guess what - they turned the neighboor into a slum. Instead of turning on the central heating, they chopped the wooden floor and burned it.
The government tried to give them money, to their local organization. It was less than a week and the money was stolen by their fellow gypsies.
Really, the society should help gypsies and all other inferiour cultures and subcultures by taking their culture away from them and giving them proper cultural education. There are a lot of living proofs that gypsies can be as successful as anyone else; there are a lot of successful gypsy businessmen. They simply choose to take a better culture.

And obviously it is purely about choices, not at all about skin colour or country of origin.