Will Battle Fatigue return?

[Gigana]

As for the wall of text Gigana wrote, I only skimmed through it

Hah, I guess I couldn't have expected more from someone who posts stuff you do.

Anyway if you've really played retri paladin, then now you're either consciously lying and/or showcasing the memory of a goldfish. The ignorance you've displayed in this thread and on the general forums proves that. The rest of your post is also ignorant drivel.

I assume this is you: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ahgerd/pvp#bgs

Considering that your s15 3v3 rating is also your highest 3v3, that you got 2208 in only 65 games, that you can't break 2200 in 2s since 2013 despite playing a human monk, that you're 100% ignorant of how other classes that you claim to have played work, and that you apparently think melee can freecast flash of light whenever they please, I wouldn't be surprised if you bought a 2200 boost on your monk.

[Aryah]

Hah, I guess I couldn't have expected more from someone who posts stuff you do.

Anyway if you've really played retri paladin, then now you're either consciously lying and/or showcasing the memory of a goldfish. The ignorance you've displayed in this thread and on the general forums proves that. The rest of your post is also ignorant drivel.

I assume this is you: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ahgerd/pvp#bgs

Considering that your s15 3v3 rating is also your highest 3v3, that you got 2208 in only 65 games, that you can't break 2200 in 2s since 2013 despite playing a human monk, that you're 100% ignorant of how other classes that you claim to have played work, and that you apparently think melee can freecast flash of light whenever they please, I wouldn't be surprised if you bought a 2200 boost on your monk.

I played ww/disc(me) and got to 2.2k in less games than that back when teams were a thing. I think it depends on your hidden rating. I'd easily give him the benefit of the doubt.

I must say though it isn't all that easy for a ret to free cast. They do get interrupted easily and get locked out of everything for a few seconds. They have to pillar or peal first.

Let's not pretend that rets aren't in a better state than monks though.

Let's also not pretend that rets don't deserve to be in a good position for the first time since WotLK.

[Gigana]

I played ww/disc(me) and got to 2.2k in less games than that back when teams were a thing. I think it depends on your hidden rating. I'd easily give him the benefit of the doubt.

He got it in season 15 on 9th June 2014, while the season was still young so no rating inflation (if memory serves, 2200 was almost duelist back then and 2500 was glad). If you ignore the 25 losses and assume he went 0-1500 in 8 wins, that still means he got on average 23 rating per win after that. It actually had to be quite a bit more, due to the 25 losses. Since his rating = his top rating ever, I'd bet he didn't even queue 3v3 anymore after that.

Then again, who knows, maybe he really is so good he can get 23 rating per win for 30 games while thinking that melee can freecast heals in arena or that an entire class (that he has apparently played in the same expansion) doesn't have a resource system.

[Aryah]

He got it in season 15 on 9th June 2014, while the season was still young so no rating inflation (if memory serves, 2200 was almost duelist back then and 2500 was glad). If you ignore the 25 losses and assume he went 0-1500 in 8 wins, that still means he got on average 23 rating per win after that. It actually had to be quite a bit more, due to the 25 losses. Since his rating = his top rating ever, I'd bet he didn't even queue 3v3 anymore after that.

Yeah okay, maybe you're right. Detective Gigana.

Too bad my view of a poster who I actually liked has now been sullied.

[Wass]

Inspector Gigadget. Dundundun.

I don't have much to contribute in the say of wwmonks or retpalas atm, I still have to do more pvp than just gearing in bgs in WoD (can't wait for arena on wednesday). But I will say this much: Gigana is not a fotm reroller.

Peace. <3

[Gigana]

Yeah okay, maybe you're right. Detective Gigana.

Too bad my view of a poster who I actually liked has now been sullied.

I kinda liked him before, too. xD

I find it really helpful and calming to check the armories of people who appear to (in my opinion) say things that make no sense/seem ridiculously biased. 9 times out of 10 it's either a low rated player who doesn't know better, or someone with a very suspicious armory.

To be fair, I can't confirm that's his character - I just assumed it was because of the name, and because his posts on official forums are similar to his posts here.

Gigana is not a fotm reroller.

<3

Gigana also got his highest ratings ever - such as they are - playing hpal beastcleave, over a few hundred games. Here's to hoping I can do the same in s16, because that elite set looks bitchin! I actually hoped to play retri this season so I don't get trained every game as holy, but it seems now I'll get trained no matter what spec I choose. xD

[WskyDK]

Why are people not talking about DKs? They have even more insane selfheal compared to rets (especially blood)

On topic : Yes, as long as they refuse to separate pve and pvp the damage/healing will eventually trump survival which requires resil and BF back.

Because lol@blood in PvP. They're a non issue. Ignore them and kill something else.
Death pact, and Death siphon are fine. Siphon eats death runes, and Pact is on two min cooldown with healing reduction for 15 sec after it's used.

[Wow]

Actually, it's much harder.

Retri is the primary train target in rated 3v3 arena (the only PvP that matters balance-wise). How much do you think retri is going to be able to spam FoL when he's being nuked by two other dps?

I never said it was easy for holy but its no diff trained to trained. Heres a little fun thing you need to think about if you can't spam cast what do you think holy is going to do weaker heals than ret and has to cast more. Enough casts can be had to be useful or holy is 100% useless.

In a real game if the dps are blowing everything on you to stop casts guess what they're not using on your healer. Its kind of funny you talk about 3v3 when the only time what you said really means something is when you don't have a healer which isn't 3v3. I'm not saying ret is godmode or anything but playing against it is more or less playing against a double healer dps comp as the heals are good all the time now.

[Aryah]

I kinda liked him before, too. xD

I find it really helpful and calming to check the armories of people who appear to (in my opinion) say things that make no sense/seem ridiculously biased. 9 times out of 10 it's either a low rated player who doesn't know better, or someone with a very suspicious armory.

To be fair, I can't confirm that's his character - I just assumed it was because of the name, and because his posts on official forums are similar to his posts here.

I suppose it removes some of the infamous internet anonymity and people can't hide so much behind profiles.

Because lol@blood in PvP. They're a non issue. Ignore them and kill something else.
Death pact, and Death siphon are fine. Siphon eats death runes, and Pact is on two min cooldown with healing reduction for 15 sec after it's used.

Basically this. Blood is there for lolz and that's it. It could be frustrating in 2s, but in 3s it just lacks the dps to be viable.

[Deleted]

Retribution is fine.

Cut half of the def CDs, boost damage outside of wings and nerf wings, then ret is fine.

[Wass]

Gigana also got his highest ratings ever - such as they are - playing hpal beastcleave, over a few hundred games. Here's to hoping I can do the same in s16, because that elite set looks bitchin! I actually hoped to play retri this season so I don't get trained every game as holy, but it seems now I'll get trained no matter what spec I choose. xD

Reroll alliance, I can let you play vanguardz cleave with me. Teehee. I have a ton of dks and only a few retpalas that want to play with me, retpalas still a bit extinct because of only really one viable comp in s15 (PHP).

[Gigana]

I never said it was easy for holy but its no diff trained to trained. Heres a little fun thing you need to think about if you can't spam cast what do you think holy is going to do weaker heals than ret and has to cast more. Enough casts can be had to be useful or holy is 100% useless.

In a real game if the dps are blowing everything on you to stop casts guess what they're not using on your healer. Its kind of funny you talk about 3v3 when the only time what you said really means something is when you don't have a healer which isn't 3v3. I'm not saying ret is godmode or anything but playing against it is more or less playing against a double healer dps comp as the heals are good all the time now.

Dude, I never said holy has it better. Holy paladins (most healers, really) are gonna be knees-deep in the same trained-all-day-every-day bucket of crap as retris.

The only reason holy has it slightly better is because holy is an actual healer. It's their job to pillarhump and keep themselves and others up, and they have 2 dps-ers on their team to peel for them.

Retri is ultimately a dps spec despite their support abilities, their job at the end of the day is to kill stuff. If retri has to spend the entire game pillaring and spamming flash of light to keep from dying because he takes so much dmg his healer has trouble keeping him, then he's not killing things, and the opposing team gains more and more pressure, and we all know how that goes because we've seen it happen throughout season 14 & 15.

Cut half of the def CDs, boost damage outside of wings and nerf wings, then ret is fine.

????

WHAT def cds? Retri has:

Divine protection = 20% less dmg taken for 10 sec, 1 min cd.
Bubble 5 min cd - dispellable with shattering throw/mass dispel
Hand of Protection 5 min cd - dispellable

Our defensive cds already suck/are dispellable, and you want to take HALF of them away? xD

Reroll alliance, I can let you play vanguardz cleave with me. Teehee. I have a ton of dks and only a few retpalas that want to play with me, retpalas still a bit extinct because of only really one viable comp in s15 (PHP).

Haha, deal. I actually already have a boosted human pala on Outland, gathering rested in an inn. Was busy grinding retri+holy gear on my cow, and am grinding the garrison now, but will start leveling the humie pala in a few days hopefully. I intend to have him purely for arena/rbg, pretty much.

Keep in mind tho, retri has never really been my forte (highest I got in s11 when retri was OP was ~2100) and I suck at interrupting so bad it's embarrassing. >_<

[Emophia]

God I hope not, blanket battle fatigue was the worst, I'd stop playing if it came back.

Instead they need to go through and nerf the problem spells instead of everything.

[Sosoulsu]

It is so obvious that you do not play Ret and have no idea that casting FoL (only strong on teammates via SH) or using Holy Power for WoG is indeed a big tradeoff ... it is also obvious that you are full of hate and probably not very bright.

You wouldn't be saying that out of bias, would you?
I play 5 classes - one of which being Retribution Paladin.
Rets' healing is far too stong. Because you likely only play Ret, you can't understand how strong it is compared to other classes.
Ret is in a VERY strong place right now in PvP - their self-healing combined with their damage makes them too strong.

[PaladinBash]

If a pally is spamming his heals, it means you are winning. All that has changed is that ret went from doing no damage and being an easy target to doing damage and being an even bigger target. The heals mean nothing if you target them directly and you should since they are both easy to kill and dangerous. I cannot imagine why you'd ever target anyone else first in a 3s match.

[Rucati]

Cut half of the def CDs, boost damage outside of wings and nerf wings, then ret is fine.

What does this have to do with defensive CDs?? Rets fall down instantly if you connect with them. Though that could be because I play a Priest and can dispel bubble for my team, but still.

I do agree with the damage changes though, it's kind of silly a class can go from being a nonthreat to killing someone instantly because they popped a CD. Should be more sustained damage and less burst for sure.

As for their healing, yeah, it's definitely too high compared to other hybrids. Ferals just got nerfed, so need to play more with them to see how exactly that effects things, but SPriests and WW Monks can't really heal for that much, and Shamans don't even really exist.

But honestly, even though Ret Healing is way broken right now, there's a lot of broken/weird healing in the game. DKs get a free second life bar with pet sac, Hunters do like 500k healing a minute with Spirit Bond, Rogues can vanish with Recup up and come back with half health ten seconds later. And those are pure damage classes, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I don't think any of it will be that broken in real 3s, it's just really strange is all, and playing weird comps with friends suffer more than playing real comps. I was playing DK/Boomkin/Disc the other night and all the offhealing was really annoying, but if I was playing thug cleave or something the games would be over before their healing matters. So I'm not too worried about it until the season starts, near the end of December we'll see where classes stand for real, skirmishes are too unbalanced to tell. I could say that Rogue/Mage/Priest is going to be broken because I played against Reckful/Fuzion/Pookz last week, but the comp isn't strong they're just 700 rating higher than me. Until ranked arenas start it's really too hard to tell what's going to be broken.

[Emophia]

If you think ret off healing is fine, you're deluded.

[Gigana]

If you think ret off healing is fine, you're deluded.

It's really strong.

That's why everyone will just train retri in 3v3, making retri off-healing a non-issue.

[Deleted]

Cut half of the def CDs, boost damage outside of wings and nerf wings, then ret is fine.

I fell off my motorcycle last month and my knee still hurts, please can I have some of the crack your taking to help take the edge off the pain? Back on topic in rated play people will blow up the ret like there is no tomorrow and then all those epic healz will mean naught.

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and what's your main's class?

The clue is in my signature. Yes I am biased because I live my class, retribution is strong not op.

[Flaks]

I played ww/disc(me) and got to 2.2k in less games than that back when teams were a thing. I think it depends on your hidden rating. I'd easily give him the benefit of the doubt.

I must say though it isn't all that easy for a ret to free cast. They do get interrupted easily and get locked out of everything for a few seconds. They have to pillar or peal first.

Let's not pretend that rets aren't in a better state than monks though.

Let's also not pretend that rets don't deserve to be in a good position for the first time since WotLK.

Let's not pretend that rets haven't been rank 1 viable for every season since s4. Every time someone says something like "omg ur just mad cuz my class is finally viable" I wanna punch them in the face. No, your spec has been viable, you've just been utter crap at it.

The same goes for locks that bitch about arenas. Also hunters especially in Cataclysm where a truly good player could go rank 1/top dog in tournaments while the vast majority were absolute crap. Mages too but I honestly don't see mages QQ all that much. Oh and rogues.

There's very few classes that can legitimately complain about "finally being viable" after a poor season. Shaman dps specs for one. Warriors in maybe 2 seasons total were quite literally utter crap though they've still seen more glad/rank 1 viable seasons than any hybrid.

All that said, there's no denying that ferals and rets and dks have the whole package. Just because you sacrifice one aspect for another for a few seconds doesn't mean you're not overpowered. Other classes just flat don't even have that option. Rets need a major drawback between their burst/team utility/survivability. Ferals need their mobility butchered as with the changes to cc shit like power shifting just flat out no longer belongs (burst of speed also no longer has a place in the current meta; thank god shadowstep is seeing more use though due to the high skill cap it provides). Dks don't have mobility worth crap but their survivability is insanely over the top.

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[QUOTE=Rucati;30861981]What does this have to do with defensive CDs?? Rets fall down instantly if you connect with them./QUOTE]

Literally every class "falls down instantly if you connect with them". Except of course it's harder to connect with a class that can immune shit, heal up to full with no concern for mana and dish out competitive healing with actual healers when you're trying to target switch.