1. #1

    [Balance] Pre- Raid Spitballing

    Righto fellow flappy birds,

    With raid only 1 week out, I'd like to throw out some topics for discussion and ask my fellow Moonkins what they've been doing or feel will be best.

    1) Stats - Currently I plan on taking every piece of gear I can get my hands on that gives me more INT. Int seems to be roughly 4-5x more powerful a stat than our next best. As far as secondary stats go, I plan on taking as much mastery as humanly possible, following up with whatever haste or crit I come across (I won't really be picky here). So for part 1, my question lies in - IS it really worth it to take more INT over WHATEVER secondary stats you come across on a higher Ilvl piece of gear? Where is the point break?

    2) Talents - I have been running every heroic and CM with Inc and Euphoria. I honestly don't see any reason to change this for boss fights in Highmaul. The question here is obvious - does anyone see any value to taking talents other than INC and Euphoria? If so, which boss fights and why? I see INC + Euph pulling ahead even on multi-target fights (now that Twin Ogron share a health pool I consider it single target). Anyone favoring SoTF anywhere? I havn't seen much chatter about it.

    3) Gear - Highmaul provides us with really only 1 worthwhile trinket, and that's the haste on use one (which is basically a better version of the trinket from Iron Docks). I feel like Copeland's Clarity or the DM Trinket could be incredibly powerful for us due to how close Crit and Mastery are as secondary stats. Thoughts here? I'm trying to get my hands on at least one, if not both of the aforementioned trinkets. Follow - up, if you can't get your hands on a DMC or Copeland's what trinkets are people trying to head in to raids with? Currently I'm planning to use the 630 Iron Docks trinket and the static Mastery trinket from Grimrail's final boss.

    Hopefully this is enough to get us started in focusing on having a nice thread on this forum regarding raid improvement for all us Moonkins.

    If you guys are interested in my armory it lies here -- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...monster/simple

    Cheers!

  2. #2
    1) id recommend simming your own character for that, and see how much scaling each point does and see if it would be worth upgrading. Even pre sim possible loot drops to know how much of a benefit it might have.

    2) for talents the only thing for dps i think is different is stellar flare? pulls ahead for multi. Havnt looked over fights much so im not even sure if theres any fights to use that on instead

    just my thoughts

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    1) id recommend simming your own character for that, and see how much scaling each point does and see if it would be worth upgrading. Even pre sim possible loot drops to know how much of a benefit it might have.

    2) for talents the only thing for dps i think is different is stellar flare? pulls ahead for multi. Havnt looked over fights much so im not even sure if theres any fights to use that on instead

    just my thoughts
    I have run Simcraft, and it's telling me that my priority is Int>Crit>Multi>=Mastery>Haste which seems absolutely absurd from everything I have read.

  4. #4
    Answering in order,

    1. You're on the right track. The only time you really shouldn't change out a piece is if you're going from something like Crit/mastery to haste/vers for like less than 5 ilvls. Other than that, It's just ilvl. All of our stats are within a pretty small margin of each other.

    2. I'm most likely going to go with SotF + Euph on pure single target fights where SotF pulls ahead. Any fight with 2+ targets at any point is going to call for INC. I also did some more sims and found the best combo for 2+ targets to be INC+StfFlr. However, Stellar flare requires perfect play otherwise it probably won't be better.

    3. This is where I'm going to want some expert opinion. I've been running sims with all sorts gear with various ilvls and stats to test trinkets. I keep coming up with similar results and I don't know if they're correct. The Imperator trinket, according to simcraft, is going to be BiS at any difficulty followed by DMC, Copeland's, and Mythic twin ogron within 50 DPS of each other.

    So it's basically something like this:

    1. Imperator Mythic
    2. Imperator Heroic
    3. Copeland's
    4. Imperator Normal
    5. Mythic Twin Ogron
    6. DMC 3/3
    7. DMC 2/3
    8. Heroic Twin Ogron

    I did some further simcraft and this is what I came up with, so my initial text is a little different.
    Edit: In my opinion, our stat priority is Mastery=Crit>multistrike=haste>versatility.
    If you stray away from that, then the sim will tell you to change your stats in order to reach this priority, which is why you can see mastery equaling multistrike if you have 10 times more mastery than MS. Actually following through on this is unknown yet, but according to them sim, it's what you should do.
    Last edited by imbearygood; 2014-11-27 at 06:25 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Drweird View Post
    I have run Simcraft, and it's telling me that my priority is Int>Crit>Multi>=Mastery>Haste which seems absolutely absurd from everything I have read.
    Its because its for YOUR gear. Some of peoples stat priorities are for higher end gear levels, or when you're just starting off. Not everyones going to have the same weights unless its the same exact gear

  6. #6
    My post is from a Mythic raiding PoV

    1) Stats
    Been running some sims of my character (649ilvl, Inc+Euph)
    Int - 1.00
    Crit - 0.41
    Haste - 0.40
    Mastery - 0.40
    Multistrike - 0.39
    Versatility - 0.34

    With Int being more than double the other secondary stats (and with secondary stats being so close together) I'm probably going to go for Int upgrades within reason.

    2) Talents - I'll most likely use Euphoria for almost all the fights in Highmaul, and change between SotF and Incarnation depending on single target vs multi target. After heroic week is done I'll compare logs (mainly for Tectus, Brackenspore, and Twin Ogron) to see if anyone got better results using stellar flare/bop.

    3) I've got both Copeland's Clairty and DMC (will be level 3 for mythic), they synchronize so well - 120 second cd/115 second icd. My thinking (haven't done hardcore simming yet) is that this combo or Shards of Nothing + DMC will be BiS going into Mythic for Incarnation, unsure about SotF and Quiescent Runestone, will have to sim it closer to the time.

  7. #7
    My original sims I did for stellar flare were in heroic highmaul bis, so it was a little off for pre-raid. It scales pretty well with gear, so in my pre-raid gear, there's no point in taking it; however, at heroic highmaul ilvl, stellar flare pulls ahead in 2+ target fights.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Your sims show bad results becasue you sim only single target, haste is best stat if you sit and do dmg and also is worst stat when you have to move. 9 not counting verstality).

  9. #9
    I posted some sims yesterday, albeit for a considerably lower gear level (616).

    You may find them here:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post30814415

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by EruptorNZ View Post
    My post is from a Mythic raiding PoV

    1) Stats
    Been running some sims of my character (649ilvl, Inc+Euph)
    Int - 1.00
    Crit - 0.41
    Haste - 0.40
    Mastery - 0.40
    Multistrike - 0.39
    Versatility - 0.34

    With Int being more than double the other secondary stats (and with secondary stats being so close together) I'm probably going to go for Int upgrades within reason.

    2) Talents - I'll most likely use Euphoria for almost all the fights in Highmaul, and change between SotF and Incarnation depending on single target vs multi target. After heroic week is done I'll compare logs (mainly for Tectus, Brackenspore, and Twin Ogron) to see if anyone got better results using stellar flare/bop.

    3) I've got both Copeland's Clairty and DMC (will be level 3 for mythic), they synchronize so well - 120 second cd/115 second icd. My thinking (haven't done hardcore simming yet) is that this combo or Shards of Nothing + DMC will be BiS going into Mythic for Incarnation, unsure about SotF and Quiescent Runestone, will have to sim it closer to the time.
    About to leave for the holiday, would love to revisit this when I get back on Friday evening. Would you be willing to add me on Btag so we could chat a little? I think you are putting some interesting combos forward.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EruptorNZ View Post
    My post is from a Mythic raiding PoV

    1) Stats
    Been running some sims of my character (649ilvl, Inc+Euph)
    Int - 1.00
    Crit - 0.41
    Haste - 0.40
    Mastery - 0.40
    Multistrike - 0.39
    Versatility - 0.34

    With Int being more than double the other secondary stats (and with secondary stats being so close together) I'm probably going to go for Int upgrades within reason.

    2) Talents - I'll most likely use Euphoria for almost all the fights in Highmaul, and change between SotF and Incarnation depending on single target vs multi target. After heroic week is done I'll compare logs (mainly for Tectus, Brackenspore, and Twin Ogron) to see if anyone got better results using stellar flare/bop.

    3) I've got both Copeland's Clairty and DMC (will be level 3 for mythic), they synchronize so well - 120 second cd/115 second icd. My thinking (haven't done hardcore simming yet) is that this combo or Shards of Nothing + DMC will be BiS going into Mythic for Incarnation, unsure about SotF and Quiescent Runestone, will have to sim it closer to the time.
    I agreed with most of this, my only question is why Crit slightly above Mastery? Even simming my own gear had the same result, Crit .01 above Mastery. Browsing multiple forums/theorycrafters, most if not all have said Int>Mastery leaving the other 3 very close together and Vers behind those. Does Crit slightly outweigh Mastery due to our low Haste at the moment?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Letharg1c View Post
    I agreed with most of this, my only question is why Crit slightly above Mastery? Even simming my own gear had the same result, Crit .01 above Mastery. Browsing multiple forums/theorycrafters, most if not all have said Int>Mastery leaving the other 3 very close together and Vers behind those. Does Crit slightly outweigh Mastery due to our low Haste at the moment?
    Haste, Mastery and Crit are pretty much interchangeable depending on what amounts you have of each.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Letharg1c View Post
    I agreed with most of this, my only question is why Crit slightly above Mastery? Even simming my own gear had the same result, Crit .01 above Mastery. Browsing multiple forums/theorycrafters, most if not all have said Int>Mastery leaving the other 3 very close together and Vers behind those. Does Crit slightly outweigh Mastery due to our low Haste at the moment?
    Unsure why crit is above mastery atm - to be honest I'm not that much of a mathy person. Even then if they are that close I'd probably go with mastery, just due to the rng nature of crit.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    1: I have no idea where do you get the 4-5X value for Int, all i have got is 2X at the most. I'd take a closer look at secondary stats before swapping items

    2. StlF seems to be quite strong in all 2-3 long living target fights and single target with heavy movement. I don't agree with the viewpoint about StlF being harder to optimize than Euphoria, it's just literally applying a dot and making sure that it doesn't fall off, where as euphoria is quite difficult to min max and can be fucked over by RNG. Also thinking about BoP on add heavy fights that live for at least ~5 seconds. Haven't seen any reason to choose anything else than Inc from the level 45 talents.

    3. Probably going to roll with what i can get, same goes for the raid trinkets. DMC 3/3 looks interesting enough, and could very well be bis until mythic trinkets, but that's just my 2 cents. The int/mastery 615 mission trinket seems to be stronger than the 630 HC trinkets, due to the down tuning fuck up, also very much interested in the other garrison trinkets, namely the raid level int + mastery proc, but that's going to require some luck.

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