Warriors always bad, Mages etc always good?

[Deleted]

Hello. So I'm not 100 yet but I've been reading various threads that describe how low in dps Arms and Fury is at the moment. This is starting to get on my nerves. I'm not sure about all this but I'm certain somone will inform me, but Warriors were shit at the start of MoP as well. Is it just me or do Warriors always get nerfed but say, Mages, always stay OP. That's how I feel, but some proper evidance may be able to sway my opinions and this feeling that Warriors are always behind.

[Charge me Doctor]

mages are not OPed, warriors in very good place both tank vice and dps vice.

It's the same story for freaking 10 years, warriors scales great with items, so if you are 610 ilvl warrior, you won't do much, but try to get your epic 645 weapon and your dps skyrockets

[Deleted]

mages are not OPed, warriors in very good place both tank vice and dps vice.

It's the same story for freaking 10 years, warriors scales great with items, so if you are 610 ilvl warrior, you won't do much, but try to get your epic 645 weapon and your dps skyrockets

Surely all the people complaining about our DPS have got that gear but are still falling behind.

[Deleted]

mages are not THAT good as they were a few patches ago, they lost a lot of burst

[Fitsu]

Arms has almost always been bad at single target but amazing at AoE
Fury has always required more stats than are available (for crit procs etc) in the first tier so starts at the bottom and ends at the top.
Gladiator filled the gap, not being stat-dependent it's AoE wasn't as good as arms but was excellent on 1-2 targets and didn't require top gear in order to perform well... Naturally every class near the bottom got buffed and gladiator that was middle of the pack got nerfed. It's still a viable spec, but warrior is currently in the bottom 3.

I'm hoping they revert this change, or find a way that doesn't hurt PvP as much to buff it back up a bit because as it stands there is simply no reason to bring warriors to the raid over any other class... We have 1 buff that 50% of classes bring anyway, sub-par DPS and no raid cooldowns.

I get that for top guilds it's the player not the class, I get that 1 guy doing ~10% more dps isn't going to be the difference between a kill or not... Warriors will still be in raids for these reasons, it would just be nice if there was a single reason to bring warriors to the raid over any other class.

[Deleted]

So everyone complaining in the three threads on the front page of the Warrior sub-forum are just undergeared? Well I've read the posts and they talk about nerfs + that it's also impossible to get enough crit as Fury and both specs are not viable, so it's not just them not having enough gear.

[Charge me Doctor]

I remember warriors being simmed at top of damage at the start of expansion, and right now (with raids unavailable) challenge modes favor shockwave+bladestorming through over smooth DPS. I bet that most of these people complaining over DPS are crybabies. There is also impossible to get enough crit as Fire mage, and Frost is very wonky, while Arcane is PvP spec, so Fire mage in challenge mode is just a fire bomb bot that often gets to 70k DPS on thrash (pretty much like any warrior with bladestorm).

I wonder why don't you compare Warriors to feral druids? They do top meters very often right now, they often do around 21k sustained damage on single/multi target fights, and they are melee. Or death knights. Why mages?

[Deleted]

Warriors have been at the pinnacle of raid dps many times in WoW history and generally been maybe the all-around top class.

DPS right now is lackluster unless Gladiator, no matter if you have 645 gear or not you are mediocre compared ot the rest of the field with same gear.

But as noted above Warriors in the past generally scale better with gear than other classes.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember warriors being simmed at top of damage at the start of expansion, and right now (with raids unavailable) challenge modes favor shockwave+bladestorming through over smooth DPS. I bet that most of these people complaining over DPS are crybabies. There is also impossible to get enough crit as Fire mage, and Frost is very wonky, while Arcane is PvP spec, so Fire mage in challenge mode is just a fire bomb bot that often gets to 70k DPS on thrash (pretty much like any warrior with bladestorm).

Single target DPS is equally important if not more important in CM currently. Low single target dps can cause endless boss wipes.

Also some CMs are very melee unfriendly and you can't just go in and aoe everything in melee range.

If your tank is only semi good and requires CC's to stay alive, you can often not even properly whirlwind.

[Deleted]

Gladiator single target was very, very good unitl the nerf, now it's still better than ANY of the mage speccs...
Arms aoe is still one of the top choices to go for trash clearing in CM runs...

Fury on beta realm was so fucking OP that you could deal 2-3 TIMES the dps other classes could do. they got the nerf hammer and it was too much.

we'll see more balancing, maybe prior to raid opening, but for sure when they have some raid data...

[Charge me Doctor]

Single target DPS is equally important if not more important in CM currently. Low single target dps can cause endless boss wipes.

Also some CMs are very melee unfriendly and you can't just go in and aoe everything in melee range.

If your tank is only semi good and requires CC's to stay alive, you can often not even properly whirlwind.

True, that's why i spend stacks of tomes to forget my talents in every CM, to get maximum damage i can on big numbers of thrash (living bomb, meteor, rune), on small amount of fat thrash (blast wave, crystal, rune), single target bosses (blast wave, crystal, rune/mirrors images), etc, i tend to spend at least 10 tomes per run, while i don't see most melees having problems with that, they just go with whatever they have for whole run while maintaining decent damage on AoE and single target.

Also, it works both ways, have you tried to be a single range DPS on Teron'gor with golem on your ass 24/7 and shit flying towards you? It's very often awful feeling to not be able to do any damage because you don't have luck on these 3 fireballs you cast on move, and scorch hits like a wet noddle (400 per cast iirc) and doesn't crit for shit.

We have DK tank, he is capable of topping DPS charts and survivng without healer, they are seriously stupid class that should be nerfed to the ground in my opinion, but shockwave is about keeping others alive or to deny some shit like fears

[Deleted]

mages are not OPed, warriors in very good place both tank vice and dps vice.

It's the same story for freaking 10 years, warriors scales great with items, so if you are 610 ilvl warrior, you won't do much, but try to get your epic 645 weapon and your dps skyrockets

How exactly are we "skyrocketing" with an iLvl 645 weapon when we are still the worst simmed class at complete iLvl 695 gear? It will take a WHOLE lot more than just a 645 weapon to get anywhere near the top spec of other classes.

I understand that people that always whine about DPS are annoying, but on the other hand it's also not okay to make everything sound better than it really is.

[Fitsu]

True, that's why i spend stacks of tomes to forget my talents in every CM, to get maximum damage i can on big numbers of thrash (living bomb, meteor, rune), on small amount of fat thrash (blast wave, crystal, rune), single target bosses (blast wave, crystal, rune/mirrors images), etc, i tend to spend at least 10 tomes per run, while i don't see most melees having problems with that, they just go with whatever they have for whole run while maintaining decent damage on AoE and single target.

Also, it works both ways, have you tried to be a single range DPS on Teron'gor with golem on your ass 24/7 and shit flying towards you? It's very often awful feeling to not be able to do any damage because you don't have luck on these 3 fireballs you cast on move, and scorch hits like a wet noddle (400 per cast iirc) and doesn't crit for shit.

We have DK tank, he is capable of topping DPS charts and survivng without healer, they are seriously stupid class that should be nerfed to the ground in my opinion, but shockwave is about keeping others alive or to deny some shit like fears

Lie detected - You cannot change talents during CM.

[Adoxe]

True, that's why i spend stacks of tomes to forget my talents in every CM, to get maximum damage i can on big numbers of thrash (living bomb, meteor, rune), on small amount of fat thrash (blast wave, crystal, rune), single target bosses (blast wave, crystal, rune/mirrors images), etc, i tend to spend at least 10 tomes per run, while i don't see most melees having problems with that, they just go with whatever they have for whole run while maintaining decent damage on AoE and single target.

Also, it works both ways, have you tried to be a single range DPS on Teron'gor with golem on your ass 24/7 and shit flying towards you? It's very often awful feeling to not be able to do any damage because you don't have luck on these 3 fireballs you cast on move, and scorch hits like a wet noddle (400 per cast iirc) and doesn't crit for shit.

We have DK tank, he is capable of topping DPS charts and survivng without healer, they are seriously stupid class that should be nerfed to the ground in my opinion, but shockwave is about keeping others alive or to deny some shit like fears

Can't change talents in CM's anymore.

[Charge me Doctor]

Can't change talents in CM's anymore.

Yeah, misspelled HM, that's why i said that in CMs you are just fire bomb bot, without luck you won't break 16k DPS ever. My point was that Warriors don't have to pick their talents for every fight to not have huge impact on their damage output, while (fire) mages do need this (don't really care about Frost mages because of hectic damage, you can deal 60k because procs, which drops back to 20k due to "lol 4k frostbolts" spam).

[Fitsu]

Yeah, misspelled HM, that's why i said that in CMs you are just fire bomb bot, without luck you won't break 16k DPS ever

Then, damn you spend a lot of effort on heroics... How do u even have time to change talents?

[Charge me Doctor]

Then, damn you spend a lot of effort on heroics... How do u even have time to change talents?

doesn't takes that much, it's like 6 clicks. One time i remember being put in combat before i locked 3 new talents. Wow that 8k dps was a shame.

It's not case of effort by the way, i just know that without crystal+blast wave on a 2 minute fight i won't pull 24k DPS, but without living bomb and meteor i won't pull 60k on 4 packs chainpulled by tank, more damage - faster run - longer epeen

[Fitsu]

doesn't takes that much, it's like 6 clicks. One time i remember being put in combat before i locked 3 new talents. Wow that 8k dps was a shame

Hrm, maybe it's just me then.... When I tank the only time the group is out of combat is when the healer is oom so you wouldn't be able to do that in my groups :P

[Deleted]

How can I say it with a lil' touch of sarcasm but not be trollin' and get infracted: Just remember that warriors put the WAR in World of WARcraft. If u get my drift, you'll do just fine

[Deathquoi]

Yeah, misspelled HM, that's why i said that in CMs you are just fire bomb bot, without luck you won't break 16k DPS ever. My point was that Warriors don't have to pick their talents for every fight to not have huge impact on their damage output, while (fire) mages do need this (don't really care about Frost mages because of hectic damage, you can deal 60k because procs, which drops back to 20k due to "lol 4k frostbolts" spam).

Lol, if you're spending stacks of tomes in heroics you're doing it wrong.

[Charge me Doctor]

Lol, if you're spending stacks of tomes in heroics you're doing it wrong.

spec to thrash whooping talents - 2(4) tomes, spec for first boss - 2(4) tomes, spec back to trash whooping - 2(4) tomes, etc.

I also eat food and drink flasks, as well as use int pots on every boss fight.