Holy PvP Glyphs Discussion

[Deleted]

I've posted this on the WoW forums too, but I'm anticipating the usual responses of 'why aren't you playing disc' or other mongoloid remarks, so I thought I'd post here.

So before the new season starts I'd like to make a decision regarding glyphs. It seems to me there are lots of glyphs which have potential, and choosing between them is hard.

A note: my thoughts regarding #1, #2 and #3 are aimed primarily at melee-based teams who will most likely at some point want to train me. I am of course not planning to use the same setup for every match.

1) Glyph of Shadow Magic. To lots of people this would be a no brainer (to those who don't know, can't remember, it provides 5 sec immunity to silence/interrupt when casting fade, 1.5 min CD). But I'm really not sure. Firstly any half decent player will be able to prevent you from casting through it regardless by stunning, gouging, death gripping or whatever they can do (assuming they're on you. Mage/warlock teams might be a different issue). Secondly, standing still and casting while receiving damage isn't ideal. And the CD is long.

2) Glyph of Fade (-10% damage when fade is cast, 30 sec CD). Obviously this can't be used with the previous one. I'm thinking this might actually be superior to shadow magic; 10% is a lot of damage prevention, and would probably equal the damage you'd have healed up with shadow magic anyway. And its CD is a third of the previous one.

3) Glyph of Levitate (+15% movement speed during Levitate, and for 10 secs afterwards). Have I gone mad? Perhaps. But I'm thinking this might actually be a good option if taken alongside the phantasm talent, whose major drawback is that it doesn't increase your movement speed at all. Assuming you have some peeling, this combination should allow you to get away from anything. The drawback of course is that you would have to sacrifice angelic feather; hence it would obviously only be taken when you're facing a melee cleave, or a team likely to nuke you.

4) Glyph of Guardian Spirit (+200% healing received by target of GS, but no longer prevents death). 260% is a LOT. I don't find the death-heal to be too reliable anyway, I sometimes find myself having to choose between letting the target 'die' to receive the 40% heal, or healing them up in fear that it might expire. Torn on this one.

Those, for me, are the debatable ones and I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. Obviously glyphs like Inquisitor, Mass Dispel, Renew, Fear Ward, and Smite are all mandatory in certain situations, but those situations are usually fairly obvious.

[Hand Banana]

Shadow Magic is 100% required and overpowered. You bascially glyph into a cd that some healers either don't have or have on a longer cd.

Inquisitor is conditionally required against cc that is breakable on damage, so mages/hunters/rogues etc.

Mass Dispel is conditonally required against druids/pallys/mages so probably most of the time.

Scourge Imprisonment is, IMO, required against UH dks.

After that its sort of a tossup I guess between renew and PW:S. You will most likely just run the first 3 though.

[Deleted]

Shadow Magic is 100% required and overpowered. You bascially glyph into a cd that some healers either don't have or have on a longer cd.

Let's put it into perspective, though. First of all, as I said, most teams with 2 melee classes will probably stun/grip you to prevent you casting anyway. Secondly, remember that in Cata (/Wrath? can't remember) the CD on this was 45 seconds. It's really not a particularly powerful ability. The only time I see it being undeniably better than the other choices is vs a mage or warlock team.

Inquisitor is conditionally required against cc that is breakable on damage, so mages/hunters/rogues etc.

Mass Dispel is conditonally required against druids/pallys/mages so probably most of the time.

Scourge Imprisonment is, IMO, required against UH dks.

Yes, I made this clear at the end of my post. Also, I'm pretty sure glyph of mass dispel isn't necessary to dispel cyclone.

After that its sort of a tossup I guess between renew and PW:S. You will most likely just run the first 3 though.

Renew will probably be the most go-to glyph. Not sure about PW:S (by the way, I'm assuming you mean Weakened Soul? Glyph of PW:S doesn't do anything useful at all).

[Hand Banana]

Let's put it into perspective, though. First of all, as I said, most teams with 2 melee classes will probably stun/grip you to prevent you casting anyway. Secondly, remember that in Cata (/Wrath? can't remember) the CD on this was 45 seconds. It's really not a particularly powerful ability. The only time I see it being undeniably better than the other choices is vs a mage or warlock team.

It is an extremely powerful ability. You say they will just use a stun or something else to stop it, that assumes they have one and you just forced them to use other abilities they could hold to stop you. The more melee heavy the game is the more important interrupt and silence immunity is. Blanket CS's are still somewhat prevalent with dks, rogues, spriest/discs having them. By the way, inner focus was the main reason disc was/has been stronger than holy; a 45 second silence immunity was too strong not to have.

Yes, I made this clear at the end of my post. Also, I'm pretty sure glyph of mass dispel isn't necessary to dispel cyclone.

Noted. I actually don't remember myself 100%, but I was under the impression it did.

Renew will probably be the most go-to glyph. Not sure about PW:S (by the way, I'm assuming you mean Weakened Soul? Glyph of PW:S doesn't do anything useful at all).

Yea I meant weakened soul sorry, I still have no idea why the other one even exists.

The thing is, all the "conditionally essential" glyphs will end up used in most cases. Even in bgs, I would rather have MD or Inquisitor at my disposal if I need it over a minor buff like weakened soul or renew. The prevalence of rets, dks, druids, rogues, possibly hunters and such demand those glyphs, utility > all.

[Deleted]

With HW:S, Renew, PW:S (it's actually decent for Holy in WoD and can be protected with PoM and Renew) and SoL Flash Heals being instant casts, aura mastery isn't mandatory. It's not a bad glyph by any means - it's really good, actually - but situational.
MD against Mages / Palas / Druids. (edit.: Will have to test if glyph is necessary for clone dispels)
Inquisitor against Mage / Rogue / Hunter (though it's really difficult to death Blind and Trap now. It may also require /cancelaura for DA and PW:S).
I would glyph Renew for throughput in most games.
Fade against some bursty comps, but you'd have to precast it - I mostly die in stuns.
Shackle UD, Weakened Soul Restored Faith are situational.
I dislike GS as you mostly use it when you're in a stun and can't really get casts off. May be worth it with Renew and high EoL ticks rolling, but in my opinion, it's too gimmicky. Maybe it's worth it with high self heal team mates?

edit.:

By the way, inner focus was the main reason disc was/has been stronger than holy; a 45 second silence immunity was too strong not to have.

Well MoP Holy was stronger than Disc because of its instant heals - Holy is playable without aura mastery. And Disc's aura mastery wouldn't stop its shields from being dispelled without grace trash buff.