Prot Pala feedback request

[Deleted]

Hello everyone! I am rather new to this forum but I have spent the past 2 hours reading threads.
I started tanking as Pally mid-MoP and it felt pretty strong throughout the expand (previously dps, war tanking in parts of WotLK).
I am not a hardcore raider, but I do have a few questions (noobish maybe) which I would greatly appreciate if you take some of your time answering:

Talents (I realize most Talents are situational, but I am talking from a HC/CM/Raid general environment perspective):

1. I run FoJ in favour of Repentance mostly because I considered the longer stun powerful in incapacitating an add during boss fights or preventing damage for a longer time. Is there benefit to Repentance replacing it so I have 2 ccs available?

2. I rarely find myself using Eternal Flame and if I do it feels like a waste. I fell SS would benefit more and wouldn't take out of my HP which I can then use for survival/damage. Would you agree?

3. For as long as I am tanking with Pally I never replaced HA. I recently read in multiple sources that SW is a better dps boost and that you can easily drop HA if you manage your HP and SotR well so I decided to try it out. Of course I am not that proficient in my SotR and sometimes I let them slip without them accomplishing much other than doing some damage. However, I felt I missed the burst of HP from HA when going into Seraphim combos. How do you guys compensate the missing boost in HP and also do you prioritize HW when using SW (over CS/HotR, Judgement and AS procs)?

4. Of course lastly is the discussion that is still somewhat on-going here between Seraphim and Holly Shield. I included Serpahim in my rotation after starting out with Holly Shield (d'oh that passive read awesome to me esp in HCs). I know that the rotation started building up to 5HP while using DP and then dumping Seraphim and saving for 2 SotR right after coming back to DP. However going into the fight with nothing but DP and then dumping the first 5HP into Seraphim leaves me feeling very weak at the start of a pull when theoretically mobs hit the hardest (since there's more of them). I felt HA compensated somewhat for that. Am I missing something in my understanding of this rotation? Also Serpahim has a 30s CD so it's back up pretty much before I finish the roation. Considering we are using it for a DPS boost as well wouldn't it be better to keep HA for a second Seraphim after the 2 SotR expire?

Glyphs:

I used to run the Glyph of Divine Protection untill I realized I don't really need it, but I am not sure what to replace it with.
While on the subject (and somewhat backtracking) I fail to see how DP alone keeps you up until you have enough HP for Seraphim or after the SotR goes down.

Rotation and what to do during encounters:
Trying out the rotation with Seraphim and learning when to use SotR to mitigate damage has been rather hard for a noob like me because I was used to pretty standard rotations which didn't require much decision making. I now try to do this as much as possible, however I am sometimes in the situation where I am at 5HP with Seraphim on CD, wanting to save a SotR proc to mitigate some damage during a specific mechanic and I feel like something is missing. I proceed with dumping a SotR anyway and quickly building up additional HP to have the SotR ready. Other than dumping some HP into a SotR when at 5 so I don't go over what can I do in order to not feel like there are dead times? Is most of what we do just CS/HotR, Judgement and AS procs while dumping some HP into a SotR when at 5 while saving for the oh so important SotR mitigation mechanic? It might be because it is a new gamestyle for me but I feel that the HP does not go into the right place and I don't think dumping SotR one after the other even if there is no mechanic to mitigate is the right way to go.

Reffering to food/flask I would go for Stamina since it gives somewhat of a fail-safe at the beginning of the raid for mistakes (which I am sure to make). Would you agree and if not what are your suggestions?

Finally, thank you for the time you put into reading this and I appreciate any opinions on this matter.

[Janaa]

See, while folks are still gearing, I go the opposite way. I'm not finding myself facing any threat challenges, so have all my talents, glyphs and rotation set for maximum survivability of myself and the party. For me, this means Battle Healer, Glyph of Divine Protection, Holy Shield, Holy Prism, and liberal use of Eternal Flame. It almost sounds like you're trying to maximise your DPS and I'm not sure why that would be a priority at this stage. Are other tanks having issues holding threat in heroics?

Edit: Just noticed your comment about challenge modes - that would require an entirely different setup from mine and I'll let those doing them currently give you better advice than I could.

[Kanadei]

I'm by no means a top of the world player or even a Mythic raider but I'll try and answer your questions as best I can based on what I know from Thecks blog/other research (other people can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Repentance is only better if your group is short on CC, otherwise (and most probably in a raiding environment) FOJ is the right call
2. SS is by and large the superior choice in 99% of cases from what I've seen, you could probably make EF work if you really wanted to but I don't see why you would.
3. I also tend to run with HA so I won't chime in on this one, I'll let someone who knows more provide some input.
4. If you are pulling with 0 HP and want to dump into Sera straight away, try using GOAK as you pull (unless there is a known reason to save the cd) - I find pulls can be messy anyway with positioning and things so helps smooth the start of the encounter. Personally I try and save up some HP from the previous trash or pack so I'm not starting on 0.

Glyphs: As has been mentioned, you could use the glyph which allows exorcism to stun elementals for cms/dungeons to prevent damage in take, or you can pick one of the consecration glyphs for better positioning, outside of that it would be personal preference for whatever you think would help - but I wouldn't discount the DP glyph. There will be fights with low magic damage where it will be invaluable, I promise.

"Is most of what we do just CS/HotR, Judgement and AS procs while dumping some HP into a SotR when at 5 while saving for the oh so important SotR mitigation mechanic?" Short answer yes. If you really think the SOTR will be useless and want to spend your HP you can always drop it into a WOG, but it is pretty bad at the moment and tbh you would probably be better off just hitting SOTR on the offchance it smooths things out a little bit (and it does a bit of damage too). If you really wanted to up your damage you could always glyph WOG for Harsh Words and dump the HP into damaging boss a bit more - but I've never really been in a place where this felt like a valid choice.

Just one man's opinion, take from it what you will.
Food/flask/pots: Stam flask, mastery food, BA pot I think is the go (maybe stam food as well if you want).

- - - Updated - - -

See, while folks are still gearing, I go the opposite way. I'm not finding myself facing any threat challenges, so have all my talents, glyphs and rotation set for maximum survivability of myself and the party. For me, this means Battle Healer, Glyph of Divine Protection, Holy Shield, Holy Prism, and liberal use of Eternal Flame. It almost sounds like you're trying to maximise your DPS and I'm not sure why that would be a priority at this stage. Are other tanks having issues holding threat in heroics?

Janaa, the reason tanks maximise DPS over healing is that dead bosses don't do any damage at all

It's really quite considerate you are pumping all your abilities into group healing but I honestly think getting the boss down faster will probably net a better result (and make you feel awesome when you top dps meter as well ^.^).

[Janaa]

Heh, I tried it that way earlier but my repairs aren't cheap. Now that folks (healers) have had another week of gearing I may start pruning these out into a raiding spec instead. Not long to go! Wheeeeee!

[Kanadei]

Heh, I tried it that way earlier but my repairs aren't cheap. Now that folks (healers) have had another week of gearing I may start pruning these out into a raiding spec instead. Not long to go! Wheeeeee!

I suppose it really depends on what you are running and how strong your healers are. I haven't had too many issues gearing for max dps outside of tanking necessities (although still following mastery as core stat after BA) but in CMs there are no repairs and really that's the only place I'm dying consistently.

Maybe I've just been blessed with decent healers but hasn't been an issue for me as of yet.

[hashtags]

Never use Battle Healer. It was awesome back at the start of MOP but after the nerfs it's beyond crap. The amount of heals it does is negligible.

Please read this article for more information:
http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/12...ds-of-draenor/

[Janaa]

Never use Battle Healer. It was awesome back at the start of MOP but after the nerfs it's beyond crap. The amount of heals it does is negligible.

Please read this article for more information:
http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/12...ds-of-draenor/

I was about to post an apology for derailing the thread, but this addresses most of OPs questions as well. Nice link!

[hashtags]

1. I run FoJ in favour of Repentance mostly because I considered the longer stun powerful in incapacitating an add during boss fights or preventing damage for a longer time. Is there benefit to Repentance replacing it so I have 2 ccs available?
A). I run with FoJ. It's quite awesome in heroics & cms.

2. I rarely find myself using Eternal Flame and if I do it feels like a waste. I fell SS would benefit more and wouldn't take out of my HP which I can then use for survival/damage. Would you agree?
A). Yes SS is the stronger among that tier. Just refresh it when you have a) empty GCD or b) < 5 sec left on SS.

3. For as long as I am tanking with Pally I never replaced HA. I recently read in multiple sources that SW is a better dps boost and that you can easily drop HA if you manage your HP and SotR well so I decided to try it out. Of course I am not that proficient in my SotR and sometimes I let them slip without them accomplishing much other than doing some damage. However, I felt I missed the burst of HP from HA when going into Seraphim combos. How do you guys compensate the missing boost in HP and also do you prioritize HW when using SW (over CS/HotR, Judgement and AS procs)?
A). I used HA during progression because it was pretty much a extra CD. Currently I am running SW. I feel like it provides a good synergy with Seraphim. But HA with Seraphim is God mode as well.
4. Of course lastly is the discussion that is still somewhat on-going here between Seraphim and Holly Shield. I included Serpahim in my rotation after starting out with Holly Shield (d'oh that passive read awesome to me esp in HCs). I know that the rotation started building up to 5HP while using DP and then dumping Seraphim and saving for 2 SotR right after coming back to DP. However going into the fight with nothing but DP and then dumping the first 5HP into Seraphim leaves me feeling very weak at the start of a pull when theoretically mobs hit the hardest (since there's more of them). I felt HA compensated somewhat for that. Am I missing something in my understanding of this rotation? Also Serpahim has a 30s CD so it's back up pretty much before I finish the roation. Considering we are using it for a DPS boost as well wouldn't it be better to keep HA for a second Seraphim after the 2 SotR expire?
A). It's fine to run with Holy Shield (HS) since it is passive and you don't have to worry about anything. But it looses value if you are not tanking the boss. Regardless I would suggest practising Seraphim. It feels a bit odd at the start but I belive. DP + SS up should cover the period. Secondly what differentiate a good tank and a normal tank is his CD usage. You need to gauge on when to use a CD. So if you feel like you are about to or just started taking too much dmg you need to pop your major cds.

Glyph:
Depending on the fight if its physical dmg heavy fight i will use DP glyph. Similarly if there are no adds I will use focused shield.
Albastor Shield & Final wrath are my other two glyph that I frequently use.

Again most of what I have written if pretty much you can get from the link I posted above. Please read that as it will help you immensely.