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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    Most likely equal drop rates statistically, and you can't prioritize loot to the players who benefit your group the most, like tanks early on and then strong dps. The less random the better.
    But personal loot would solve the issues of imbalanced groups.
    Say your group is 50% plate, and no leather: about 20% of loot will be useless, while 50% of the players compete for ~20% of the loot.
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  2. #22
    look at it this way.I have seen 5 man groups get no loot the entire run.i have also seen everyone get a piece every boss in a dungeon once maybe.so take normal then heroic dungeons.Normal has a high chance to drop loot heroic dungeons don't seem to drop as frequent.Now take personal loot in heroic raids odds are the chance will be way less since its raid gear.You could go kill a boss and no loot drops at all.I would rather have master looter or group loot that way at least something drops.lets keep personal loot to lfr and dungeons that are group finder.

  3. #23
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    The option will be there but nobody is going to use it. I don't see it as a viable option for guilds. Maybe you'd get a few people to agree on personal loot, but the entire 20 man group and the players who play bench? No way.

  4. #24
    Personal loot is going to be your pug loot, where as master looter will be your default guild loot system.

  5. #25
    I don't know about you guys but for me one of the most fun parts of killing a boss for the first time is seeing what he drops and distributing the loot. Even if it's loot I don't need, it's cool to see if the boss drops that one awesome caster trinket or tank shield, etc.

    In fact, part of being part of a guild is the whole distributing loot after a boss process. I don't know, just wouldn't feel the same raiding and just seeing a bunch of random people getting loot.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Tell that to the unlucky person in your guild who will never see loot he actually needs for 2-3 weeks straight if not more.
    But that migh just aswell happen with group loot/ML. Item never drops. And ontop of that. He might have to roll again 5 others to get said item.

    Personal loot will be the best option until no on really get anything anymore. Then ML and give out the last items people need

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    This feeling of 'less control' might just be an illusion.
    I am a priest so lets just use my as example and a fellow priest
    second week raiding
    Personal looting = Oh look, i got that awesome staff again, and fellow priest got gold and has no improved weapon. Too bad i cannot give it to him so the raid will improve in general, instead i will just DE or sell the staff i guess.

    Standard loot rules = hey look, that staff i got last week dropped again. Your turn fellow priest.

    Seriously, this is not an illusion, you are giving the control away to a hidden roll system which is fine for randoms but NOT for a dedicated raid group.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SL1200 View Post
    The option will be there but nobody is going to use it. I don't see it as a viable option for guilds. Maybe you'd get a few people to agree on personal loot, but the entire 20 man group and the players who play bench? No way.
    As a progressing guild running with 20 players.

    Its rather unrealistic that they will get less than 5 items per boss. Might even get 20 items on the boss.
    getting 20 is slim to non. But if it happens. You now have every member in the raid with 1 item upgraded and it will benefit the guild more than if you used ML and got 2-5 items

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Wrong sorry, that is exactly the illusion I'm talking about. Your personal loot has no influence on the lootchance of other people. With personal loot the same boss can also drop the same staff 4 times on a single kill, so 4 people would get instantly geared up.
    And you can do a whole raid without anyone seeing one piece of loot.

    With the standard system your raidgroup will have some control, with personal loot you don't.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelrine View Post
    And you can do a whole raid without anyone seeing one piece of loot.

    With the standard system your raidgroup will have some control, with personal loot you don't.
    Let's use your scenario with your priest friend, and let's say that three items drop per boss on the group loot setting. The staff drops, and he's the only one in the raid that can make use of it. Because group loot is fundamentally a competitive system, the staff dropping for your friend reduced the chances of a viable upgrade dropping for everyone else in the raid because only 3 items can drop per boss and that staff just took up one of the slots. And let's say the staff drops again the next week. Since at that point nobody can use it, it just becomes dead space on the loot table. With personal loot, if an item drops for you that you already have, it doesn't lower anybody else's chances of getting the loot that they want. The inability to trade items is there to keep the system from being infinitely better than group loot or ML, which still have their advantages if you are carrying some players to soak up drops for example.

    Based on my experiences with personal loot over the past couple years, I would also say that it is a faster way of gearing than group loot/ML. Just imagine a 10man group doing a raid of 5 bosses with 2 items dropping per boss. That's 10 drops per raid in total. With personal loot, anywhere between 0 and 50 items can drop per raid. So while there's always the chance that RNG totally screws the raid over one week and you get less than 10 items, it's also possible to get many more drops. On average I think more items drop per raid from personal loot.
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  11. #31
    we have a priority system in place for key performers and roles to receive loot first (especially with adaptive gear). Personal loot wont help us with this.

  12. #32
    I hate the mentality of "This specific person is so much more important than the rest they need more loot than everyone else even though they're putting in the same effort as the rest of the group". Give everyone the same chance at loot and no one can be in the wrong. People are acting like Personal Loot has half the chance of giving loot that Group Loot does, even though it works out to the same percentage wise.

    I can't wait to hear the complaints from people who's Group Loot isn't dropping what they need and people using Personal Loot saying "See? We told you it wouldn't make a difference.."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Actually I went ahead and calculated it precisely for you. The probability of you going through a mythic raid without anyone seeing any loot at all during the entire raid = 0.000000000000027 %

    The chance of your mythic raid not getting any loot from a single boss = 0.0115%

    The chance of you getting more or equal loot from a single boss-kill than with master-loot = 59%

    The chance of you getting less loot from a single boss-kill than with master-loot = 41%


    On average personal loot gives 9% more loot than master-loot.
    Meaning that raidguilds that use personal loot on average will be geared up faster...

    For those want the tool to calculate it themselves: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx
    Where exactly are you getting the chance for personal loot? I've never seen it explicitly stated however 0.2-0.25 seems what I'd guess.

    I would really appreciate you showing your working/assumptions here as I have always imagined personal loot would on average give the same amount of loot as non-personal.

    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Wrong sorry, that is exactly the illusion I'm talking about. Your personal loot has no influence on the lootchance of other people. With personal loot the same boss can also drop the same staff 4 times on a single kill, so 4 people would get instantly geared up.
    While this is correct, you're making the wrong conclusion. The person you were replying to was right in that under group loot/ML, one person getting a piece of loot increases the chance of other people getting that same bit of loot next time (note the chance of the item actually dropping remains the same of course).

    Put it this way, if you were trying to gear up an alt and your whole raid was in BiS, would you want it on group loot or personal loot?
    Last edited by adynn; 2014-11-30 at 07:00 AM.

  14. #34
    My experience:
    4 months of LFR and Flex on Personal loot trying to get a 1H caster weapon, none ever dropped for me. Many duplicates dropped for others who had it, but never one for me.

    Single kill of Garrosh on distributed loot and I got my 1H caster weapon because the others there who could use it already had it.

  15. #35
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    IIRC under a Group/ML system, each person 'gave' a cumulative 20% chance for an item to drop as well (i.e. with 20 people you'd get 4 drops, 21 you'd get 4 80% of the time and 5 20% of the time).

    Basic expectation then suggests that on average the same amount of loot would drop for both Master Looter and Personal Loot.

    Note that this relies on a 20% chance for personal loot as well as how I said the ML loot pool scales per person.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Thats it? I've gone longer than that with rolling for loot.
    I have to laugh at anyone who complains they got loot after 2-3 weeks, I've gone a full month without getting a single Fucking piece of gear from a guild raid, and that was because our GM had a retarded loot roll policy that pretty much always put me at the bottom of the ladder. not to mention the other guilds I raided with I always had the worst roll for every Fucking item I needed from a boss to another player.

    people bitch about waiting for two weeks when they have a Fucking blessing for a guild spot then...
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    I assumed so too but when you fill in the numbers and do the calculation there is a slight favour towards higher loot distribution in the personal loot system.
    Remember E(X+Y)=E(X)+E(Y).

    As such to work out the average amount of loot from personal loot where each person has a 20% chance for gear, you can simply sum them. Now I'm sure that this distribution wouldn't be symmetric, but it doesn't mean much when talking about expectations.

    The real bonus of personal loot is that your drops will adjust themselves with your raid comp, however I don't value that higher than being able to choose where items go in accordance with stat priorities.

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