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  1. #41
    I couldn't find a definitive answer in the thread, or elsewhere in the forum, so: other than GCD use, is there any reason to prefer using ES at ~ 20 stacks of Fulmination rather than twice at ~ 10 stacks? (eg: is 2 x [email protected] == 1 x [email protected], other than base shock damage and GCD use?)

    I ask, because I am trying to work out if I should make sure that when Flame Shock does not need refreshing, and I have 2 x Elemental Fusion stacks, I should ES early to avoid capping EF stacks. (It seems like the base damage of Earth Shock and Lightning Bolt is reasonably comparable, so if casting at 10 stacks twice is the same as casting at 20 stacks once in terms of Fulmination, I can't see a reason *not* to do this.)

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    I couldn't find a definitive answer in the thread, or elsewhere in the forum, so: other than GCD use, is there any reason to prefer using ES at ~ 20 stacks of Fulmination rather than twice at ~ 10 stacks? (eg: is 2 x [email protected] == 1 x [email protected], other than base shock damage and GCD use?)

    I ask, because I am trying to work out if I should make sure that when Flame Shock does not need refreshing, and I have 2 x Elemental Fusion stacks, I should ES early to avoid capping EF stacks. (It seems like the base damage of Earth Shock and Lightning Bolt is reasonably comparable, so if casting at 10 stacks twice is the same as casting at 20 stacks once in terms of Fulmination, I can't see a reason *not* to do this.)

    Quoting from the first post

    As you cast Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning (and now, with the Improved Lightning Shield perk, Lava Burst too) you will generate a Lightning Shield Charge via the Fulmination passive for every target hit. This includes from Multistrikes, so one Lightning Bolt can generate potentially 3 Charges, and one Lava Burst can potentially generate 4.

    When you cast Earth Shock, it will deal its damage, plus the damage of every single Lightning Shield charge you have above the first, resetting you back to 1 charge. This is, when used at high charges, our hardest hitting spell. The reason this is lower in priority than Lava Burst however, is that you have some leeway with it, in that assuming you cast it once it is above 15 Stacks and Lava Burst is on cooldown, you are unlikely to waste stacks, whilst if you cast it at above 15 Stacks but with Lava Burst off cooldown, you could be wasting Lava Surge procs.

    The counter to this, however, is that now Lava Burst can generate stacks itself, you can cap out from the Lava Burst casts, especially with Lava Surge procs and with the Echo of the Elements talent. However, even if you do cap out on stacks, it is still not worth delaying the use of Lava Burst to dump your stacks.

  3. #43
    Anyone made sims with trinkets yet? I know for some classes some blue trinkets are superior even than trinkets from HM normal.

    I am currenty using 640ilvl Sandman and 630 Genesaur Blood. I didnt do any big testing but by common sense these should be pretty good, no?
    Raider since vanilla. Mage->Paladin->Shaman->Rogue.

    Armory

    Absurdum - Mythic guild

  4. #44
    Something I've been wondering, but if you're not taking Unleashed Fury, you never bother casting Unleashed Flame besides maybe pre-pull because it invokes the GCD right? Something I'm not really clear about, I see a lot of stuff referencing UF, but since both talent/spell share the same initials, can't figure it out half the time. Regardless since I took EB instead I have never been using UF, but am unsure if I should be or not.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    Something I've been wondering, but if you're not taking Unleashed Fury, you never bother casting Unleashed Flame besides maybe pre-pull because it invokes the GCD right? Something I'm not really clear about, I see a lot of stuff referencing UF, but since both talent/spell share the same initials, can't figure it out half the time. Regardless since I took EB instead I have never been using UF, but am unsure if I should be or not.
    Sorry if you didn't find this clear in the guide, to clarify you should only use Unleash Flame if you have the Unleash Fury talent. Otherwise it isn't in the rotation at all (except for on prepull or during movement).


  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirork View Post
    Quoting from the first post
    That doesn't quite answer my question, possibly because I fail at reading, so feel free to call me stupid.

    Assuming that Lava Burst is on cooldown, as stated in the guide, I have 30 seconds of max buffed Flame Shock left and I have 10 stacks of Lightning Shield, and everything else higher priority than Lightning Bolt is on cooldown ... should I sit on my 10 stacks until I have 15 before I hit Earth Shock, at the risk that I get luck with EoTE and other CD resets on Lava Burst to cap lightning shield stacks before I can use them, or should I burn my 10 stacks down to 1 now, and then when LB comes off cooldown later, have no risk of capping?

    eg: should I put ES with > 1 stack of lightning shield *just* ahead of lightning bolt as filler in my rotation? Less burst damage, but overall identical damage, I think, given the base damage of earth shock and lightning bolt is pretty close?

    Putting it another way, is the risk of losing stacks due to capping worse than the risk of losing stacks due to casting Earth Shock rather than Lightning Bolt as filler?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Sorry if you didn't find this clear in the guide, to clarify you should only use Unleash Flame if you have the Unleash Fury talent. Otherwise it isn't in the rotation at all (except for on prepull or during movement).
    Well the guide was clear, it was more reading from guides on different websites that had me confused. So figured I would ask here since it was the first guide I read

    Thanks for the clarification though.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    Putting it another way, is the risk of losing stacks due to capping worse than the risk of losing stacks due to casting Earth Shock rather than Lightning Bolt as filler?
    The risk of capping out is why you try to cast Earth Shock the moment you hit 15 stacks, you wont cap out from one more spell, so your next spell will be 100% effective. If the spell after that is a Lava Burst, well Lava Burst is better anyway. To put it simply, as you said, losing stacks due to not casting Lightning Bolt is a bigger deal than slightly overcapping because of 1 extra Lightning Bolt cast followed by a series of lucky Lava Bursts. Obviously if you could predict the future, you would want to cast Earth Shock before a sick series of Lava Burst procs, dump your stacks, then have those Lava Bursts get you back to full stacks, but because you can't do that (outside of Ascendance!!), you have to settle for the statistically best option.


  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Obviously if you could predict the future, you would want to cast Earth Shock before a sick series of Lava Burst procs, dump your stacks, then have those Lava Bursts get you back to full stacks, but because you can't do that (outside of Ascendance!!), you have to settle for the statistically best option.
    Awesome. Thanks for your patience. That clears up my question nicely.

  10. #50
    Okey simmed my char and best talents for me is.

    Elemental mastery and unleash flame and Storm elemental totem.

    Question though.

    Since EM is a 2min CD and Ascendance is 3min.

    Should I wait 1 min to time them up or just use them asap?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameltotem View Post
    Okey simmed my char and best talents for me is.

    Elemental mastery and unleash flame and Storm elemental totem.

    Question though.

    Since EM is a 2min CD and Ascendance is 3min.

    Should I wait 1 min to time them up or just use them asap?
    This pretty much depends on the fight length. If you will get the same number of Elemental Mastery casts even if you wait, then you lose nothing by waiting and syncing them up is fine. However, if you waiting that extra minute means you lose out on an Elemental Mastery at the end of the fight, or if the fight lasts over 6 minutes so you end up waiting a second time to sync it up with the third Ascendance too, then its not worth it.

    In a sub-6minute fight, the optimal way to use your CDs would be EM+Ascendance on pull, EM on CD, when Ascendance comes off CD don't use it, and wait for EM to come back up again at 4 minutes, use them both then. This is the same amount of cooldowns usage as waiting the extra minute on the second EM and using Ascendance on cooldown, with the added benefit that you'll be using Ascendance later in the fight, when the boss is at lower HP (generally when fights start ramping up in difficulty and burn phases begin, especially on such a short fight).

    tl;dr - Yes and No. It totally depends on fight duration. You should use as many of each cooldown as you can fit into a fight. As long as delaying cooldowns doesn't cost you extra casts of the cooldown later on, then delay it. If it doesn't, then don't. If in doubt, use on cooldown.


  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    This pretty much depends on the fight length. If you will get the same number of Elemental Mastery casts even if you wait, then you lose nothing by waiting and syncing them up is fine. However, if you waiting that extra minute means you lose out on an Elemental Mastery at the end of the fight, or if the fight lasts over 6 minutes so you end up waiting a second time to sync it up with the third Ascendance too, then its not worth it.

    In a sub-6minute fight, the optimal way to use your CDs would be EM+Ascendance on pull, EM on CD, when Ascendance comes off CD don't use it, and wait for EM to come back up again at 4 minutes, use them both then. This is the same amount of cooldowns usage as waiting the extra minute on the second EM and using Ascendance on cooldown, with the added benefit that you'll be using Ascendance later in the fight, when the boss is at lower HP (generally when fights start ramping up in difficulty and burn phases begin, especially on such a short fight).

    tl;dr - Yes and No. It totally depends on fight duration. You should use as many of each cooldown as you can fit into a fight. As long as delaying cooldowns doesn't cost you extra casts of the cooldown later on, then delay it. If it doesn't, then don't. If in doubt, use on cooldown.
    Yeah makes sense, however i got blood fury so can use that with EM.

    Also suprised Storm elemental is so good, i will go with that one instead of EF. Start fight with searing totem and Storm elemental then Fire elemental.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameltotem View Post
    Yeah makes sense, however i got blood fury so can use that with EM.

    Also suprised Storm elemental is so good, i will go with that one instead of EF. Start fight with searing totem and Storm elemental then Fire elemental.
    You should open with Fire Elemental over Storm Elemental. It is stronger and will benefit more from procs off trinkets and Pot than Storm Ele does.


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    You should open with Fire Elemental over Storm Elemental. It is stronger and will benefit more from procs off trinkets and Pot than Storm Ele does.
    Really?
    Super that you mentioned that! Will do that instead. Thought it would be better burst wise to open with storm and fire totem since you can only have one elmental.

  15. #55
    I have some quick question here. but before I get into them let me start of i am new to Ele shaman and somehow it ended up being my main this Xpac. My shaman can be found at Danjindy of US-Stormrage

    -Question 1-

    I have been wanting to run EB instead of UF after the Buff to EB but i feel the synergy between UF and Echo is too strong? even with the 10% buff. Am i on point with this or would it be viable running EB with AnS or EM instead of echo?

    -Question 2 -

    Can you simplify the lvl 100 talents a little bit more for me? In the instance of when to use what and when? I have seen people use all three and i just want to be more aware of when one comes out ahead over another.

    -Last question-

    Do you have stat weights for current tier? I am starting to run into the problem where gear i get is of a lower ilvl but has better stats then what i am using. If you do not have exact numbers that is fine i just need something i can start working off of.


    Thank you for taking the time for this guide a lot of us appreciate it. Looking forward to your response.

  16. #56
    EB didn't really get a buff, per se. It got a damage increase, sure, but that was basically just to keep it at relatively the same strength when compared with LB and LvB. Not only that, but the damage increase to EB also keeps it in relatively the same place compared to UF, as any buff to LB/LvB also increases the value of that talent.

    So yeah, EB wasn't buffed. Yes, it received a damage increase, but it should still be in the same place it was before when compared to UF.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by JinTheMan View Post
    I have some quick question here. but before I get into them let me start of i am new to Ele shaman and somehow it ended up being my main this Xpac. My shaman can be found at Danjindy of US-Stormrage

    -Question 1-

    I have been wanting to run EB instead of UF after the Buff to EB but i feel the synergy between UF and Echo is too strong? even with the 10% buff. Am i on point with this or would it be viable running EB with AnS or EM instead of echo?

    -Question 2 -

    Can you simplify the lvl 100 talents a little bit more for me? In the instance of when to use what and when? I have seen people use all three and i just want to be more aware of when one comes out ahead over another.

    -Last question-

    Do you have stat weights for current tier? I am starting to run into the problem where gear i get is of a lower ilvl but has better stats then what i am using. If you do not have exact numbers that is fine i just need something i can start working off of.


    Thank you for taking the time for this guide a lot of us appreciate it. Looking forward to your response.
    UF is around 450 dps increase for me than other talents.

  18. #58
    Hello.
    About the buff on monday, i did highmaul HC last boss on that day and well i was the top DPS, i was on the top on both single/aoe dmg, ok nice !
    But on thursday on my raid time about 24hours later of the ''buff'' i was doing a horrible DPS it was like the buff never existed, my average dmg was lower on recount
    and was not even close to top 10 (25m) anyone else felt the same?
    And my question is, whats going on? nerf hammer already? bug?
    Thanks.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by NoDSky View Post
    About the buff on monday, i did highmaul HC last boss on that day and well i was the top DPS, i was on the top on both single/aoe dmg, ok nice !
    But on thursday on my raid time about 24hours later of the ''buff'' i was doing a horrible DPS it was like the buff never existed, my average dmg was lower on recount
    and was not even close to top 10 (25m) anyone else felt the same?
    And my question is, whats going on? nerf hammer already? bug?
    Either the rest of your raid stepped up their game, or the problem is you.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    Either the rest of your raid stepped up their game, or the problem is you.
    Dude my Lvburst is doing 46k top crits today full buffs, on monday it was like 63k top dmg.
    Same gear same talents. and i have the logs ~~ Or it is a hidden nerf or im with a bug.
    Last edited by NoDSky; 2014-12-11 at 02:40 AM.

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