[PvE Guide] Elemental Shaman - Updated for 6.0.3

[Deleted]

Anyone has a spreadsheet of stat weight? Like how close they are to eachother. For example when upgrading a 665 item to 670 how much does that intellect contribute when replacing crit for like mastery?

It isn't a fixed value I'm afraid. It all depends on what other gear you have. If items are incredibly close, the only real way to tell is to try it out and/or sim it. Stat weights can be used as a guide, but will change every single time you get new gear.

[TheWindWalker]

I have a question about Elemental Fusion that I want to make clear isn't condescending or accusatory beforehand. (Yeah, I felt this necessary to say.)

According to my tooltips, a full 30 seconds of Flame Shock does barely 10% of the damage casting Lightning Bolt 15 times in the same 30 second would. Even if you doubled it, I don't see how it's better than having the storm elemental. What math am I not getting?

[Xorn]

Well, there's Earth Shock too...

Plus, what does the comparison of FS and LB have to do with the damage from SET?

[Deleted]

Well, there's Earth Shock too...

Plus, what does the comparison of FS and LB have to do with the damage from SET?

His point is that why is the bonus damage from Elemental Fusion worth taking over Storm Elemental, if Flame Shock's damage is so low. The Lightning Bolt comment was a bit misguided though.

To answer your question Windwalker, its because Flame Shock has such a high DPCT. Flame Shock deals all its damage in essentially 1.5 seconds, rather than the 30 seconds you are saying, because whilst it does last that long, you don't have to do anything for the duration. I do see what you are saying though, that even if it only tasks a GCD to cast, it doesn't do that much damage. It just needs to do more damage than SET does though.

SET does 45% SP every 2 seconds (before Haste, 15% SP x 3 for Call Lightning) , for 60 seconds, or 45% SP x 30 = 1350% Spellpower over its duration. Flame Shock does 245% SP every 30 seconds (assuming you use it bang on when it drops off, but in reality you'll use it earlier), so over the same 300 second period (5 minutes) it will deal 2450% SP. 80% of that (Elemental Fusion) is another 1960% Spellpower.

Flame Shock does take many more GCDs than SET though, over that 300 second period you are going to use probably 11 (once you take into account clipping) GCDs, 10 more than you would with SET, which is 15 seconds you could have spend casting Lightning Bolt. That equates too 6 Lightning Bolt casts, for another 528% Spellpower (before you take into account Lightning Shield generation). Those 6 Lightning Bolts, even if none of them multistrike, will add 6 Lightning Shield stacks, for another 22.6% SP x 6 = 135.6% SP, finally taking SET's combined total up too 2013.6% SP. The Storm Elemental damage is slightly off, because of Call Lightning damage, but is roughly accurate.

Once you add on the bonus damage from Earth Shock for Elemental Fusion though, the scales tip back in the favour of Elemental Fusion. As you can see though, both talents are really very close. If you have a fight which is 7-8 minutes in length, so you can get two Storm Elementals off (as you want to use Fire Elemental first anyway), then Storm Elemental will end up being stronger. Either way there is not much in it.

[Zython]

With 6.0.3, Lava Burst is finally able to benefit from Critical Strike chance. For every 1% Crit you have, your Lava Burst will have a 1% Chance to fire a Multistrike Lava Burst. This Multistrike is separate from the ones caused by the Multistrike stat itself, and as such you can actually fire a possible 3 Multistrike Lava Bursts, as well as the Main spell itself, from just one cast, causing significant damage for what could have been an instant cast spell (if used with Lava Surge).

Can anyone point me to where it says this? I can't find it any tooltips or any patch/hotfix notes. Its awesome, if true, but a primary source would be helpful.

Edit: Found it. Nevermind

[TheWindWalker]

-informative snip-

Thank you! This kind of thing usually goes over my head when I've been away from a class for a while and you've managed to summarize it without missing anything so that it's easy to understand.

[Legiun]

hi, i would love if you could also add some macros pleasE?

Cooldown macros etc?

Cheer

[Hoodie]

Could we get some clarification on lvl 60 Talent choice (EoE). I have read a few other places that EoE is only best in AOE fights (which I assume is 3+ targets). Why do you say it is the best all around?

Icy Veins has EM and AS both listed as close but ahead of EoE.

[danielshawn]

It is, assuming you hit two targets with your CL first and they stand in the full duration.

Regarding using EQ in a cleave rotation where EQ hits all the mobs being cleaved (for example, Twins,) where does EQ fall in the priority?

Is EQ worth using on a single target, if you can hit 2+ mobs with CL elsewhere (for example, CL adds during Imperator intermission then EQ the single mage?)

- - - Updated - - -

Could we get some clarification on lvl 60 Talent choice (EoE). Why do you say it is the best all around?

As you surmised, it's because of its great AoE potential. It also does respectably well single target. My personal sim only shows a 2.5% difference, ST, between EM and EoE. YMMV.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone has a spreadsheet of stat weight? Like how close they are to eachother. For example when upgrading a 665 item to 670 how much does that intellect contribute when replacing crit for like mastery?

It isn't a fixed value I'm afraid. It all depends on what other gear you have. If items are incredibly close, the only real way to tell is to try it out and/or sim it. Stat weights can be used as a guide, but will change every single time you get new gear.

Undefetter's advice is spot on. For general reference, my sims show INT to be ~twice as good as my next best stat MS. The secondaries are much closer in value to each other.

[Deleted]

Regarding using EQ in a cleave rotation where EQ hits all the mobs being cleaved (for example, Twins,) where does EQ fall in the priority?

Is EQ worth using on a single target, if you can hit 2+ mobs with CL elsewhere (for example, CL adds during Imperator intermission then EQ the single mage?)

-snips-

I would assume not but I guess it depends on your mastery levels (e.g I'm close to 95% mastery so this may be a gain) but we should test it

[Deleted]

hi, i would love if you could also add some macros pleasE?

Cooldown macros etc?

Cheer

I certainly can, I'll be doing a fairly large update to this guide after the holidays.

Could we get some clarification on lvl 60 Talent choice (EoE). I have read a few other places that EoE is only best in AOE fights (which I assume is 3+ targets). Why do you say it is the best all around?

Icy Veins has EM and AS both listed as close but ahead of EoE.

Will get back to you on this. I plan on doing a large amount of math-proofs for my guide after the holidays, and updating them to follow those proofs. The talent choices in the guide currently are from previous napkin math/sims I have done, but - as with everything you find on the internet - if you want to be 100% certain you should always 1) Find a secondary source and 2) Investigate it for yourself.

Regarding using EQ in a cleave rotation where EQ hits all the mobs being cleaved (for example, Twins,) where does EQ fall in the priority?

EQ is absolutely number 1 on priority (after you have gotten one chain lightning out to buff it) on more than 1 target. It hits really hard with CL stacks.

Is EQ worth using on a single target, if you can hit 2+ mobs with CL elsewhere (for example, CL adds during Imperator intermission then EQ the single mage?)

I'm not actually sure on this. I'll add it to the list of things I need to math after holidays, but with a very brief bit of napkin math I'd say on 2 targets it would be, but only to replace a Lightning Bolt. If with a 5 target Chain Lightning Buff it would definitely be worth it, and would be top priority, even on just 1 target.

[SlippyCheeze]

I'm not actually sure on this. I'll add it to the list of things I need to math after holidays, but with a very brief bit of napkin math I'd say on 2 targets it would be, but only to replace a Lightning Bolt. If with a 5 target Chain Lightning Buff it would definitely be worth it, and would be top priority, even on just 1 target.

FWIW, the SimCraft ele shaman rotation has a bunch of mathy stuff to work out of single target EQ is worth it; I would love to know if you thought that was right, wrong, or irrelevant, come the time. (er, also would love to see the underlying math for your work, not just the results of it, if possible.)

[wfredlund]

It's been a while since I actually did any sort of progression raiding on my shaman so this may be moot but have they fixed the derp on the elemental totems? Watching my fire ele do nothing was never fun.

[Deleted]

It's been a while since I actually did any sort of progression raiding on my shaman so this may be moot but have they fixed the derp on the elemental totems? Watching my fire ele do nothing was never fun.

They have on certain bosses, I don't remember there being any problems in Highmaul except if you are chain hurled on Kargath, flying bosses in dungeons it still derps on.

[Deleted]

It's been a while since I actually did any sort of progression raiding on my shaman so this may be moot but have they fixed the derp on the elemental totems? Watching my fire ele do nothing was never fun.

The AI for the Elementals was pretty much fixed in MoP. Its much, much better than days of old where you'd drop it and it would just stand and derp for 20 seconds before targeting something. Shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[Hoodie]

Thanks Undefetter, I switched to EoE just to give it a shot and do some runs to get a feel for proc rates and such. I feel like it is certainly viable in single target but not sure how that compares to directly.

I'm going to keep using EoE for now just because so many fights have cleave in them...

Appreciate all your hard work on this guide and keeping it updated. I hope you had a great holiday and that the new year is good to you!

- Hoodie

[danielshawn]

For curiosity's sake, I ran a SimCraft of 27 different talent configurations (combinations of tier 4, 6, & 7,) using my Deepe-Proudmoore ilvl 63x gear and Boozeyo-Jubei'Thos (Avast) 67x gear, and SimCraft's default rotation. Here are some interesting findings from the results:

In both cases, there was only about a 5% dps difference between the highest 1331112 (Elemental Mastery, Unleashed Fury, Storm Elemental Totem) and the lowest 1333133 (Echo of the Elements, Elemental Blast, Liquid Magma.)

In both cases, the relationship between Crit and Haste fluctuates based on talent choices, from greater than, less than, and equal. The relationship of Int > SP > MS > rest remains consistent.

In both cases, when using Echo of the Elements, the value of Haste rises and the value of Crit lessens (Int > SP > MS > Haste > Crit ~>= Vers ~>= Mastery). As more of your damage comes from Lava Burst, the value of Crit goes down. I was surprised how much it went down, approaching equality to versatility in some cases.

[SlippyCheeze]

For curiosity's sake, I ran a SimCraft of 27 different talent configurations (combinations of tier 4, 6, & 7,) using my Deepe-Proudmoore ilvl 63x gear and Boozeyo-Jubei'Thos (Avast) 67x gear, and SimCraft's default rotation. Here are some interesting findings from the results:

Any chance we could see the details? I am curious about <EotE, UF, EF>, and <EotE, UF, SE> specifically, but it is interesting to see the full results. (I am likely to run my own automation across these, but having yours makes it easier to see how things stack up.)

Also, what margin of error / run count did you use on these?

[Saiyoran]

For CM golds or faster would you recommend Multi>Crit or Multi>Haste. I was under the impression that Multi>Crit was the way to go, but http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...D0%B3/advanced in ele seems to be going multi>haste.

[danielshawn]

Any chance we could see the details?
Also, what margin of error / run count did you use on these?

10,000 iterations run on each talent set. Unfortunately, I can't post URLs yet, but here's a brief summary of the data you requested

ilvl 63x set:
T_1333111 Int=4.57(0.04) SP=4.11(0.04) Crit=1.62(0.04) Haste=2.01(0.04) Mastery=1.51(0.04) Mult=2.29(0.04) Vers=1.59(0.04)
DPS: 21462.9 DPS-Error=10.2/0.047% DPS-Range=1933/9.0% DPS-Convergence=69.7%

T_1333112 Int=4.54(0.04) SP=4.11(0.04) Crit=1.60(0.04) Haste=1.98(0.04) Mastery=1.49(0.04) Mult=2.23(0.04) Vers=1.57(0.04)
DPS: 21403.4 DPS-Error=10.4/0.049% DPS-Range=1924/9.0% DPS-Convergence=69.5%

Core Stats: intellect=3579|3146(3052)
Generic Stats: mastery=67.68%|45.18%(224) multistrike=37.58%|30.98%(725) versatility=5.11%|2.11%(274)
Spell Stats: power=5344|4425(1279) crit=18.65%|13.65%(951) haste=9.90%|4.67%(467)

ilvl 67x set:
T_1333111 Int=5.19(0.06) SP=4.71(0.06) Crit=2.32(0.06) Haste=2.72(0.06) Mastery=2.17(0.06) Mult=3.11(0.06) Vers=2.28(0.06)
DPS: 31280.4 DPS-Error=14.1/0.045% DPS-Range=2934/9.4% DPS-Convergence=70.1%

T_1333112 Int=5.20(0.06) SP=4.69(0.06) Crit=2.30(0.06) Haste=2.69(0.06) Mastery=2.12(0.06) Mult=3.04(0.06) Vers=2.28(0.06)
DPS: 31169.4 DPS-Error=14.5/0.047% DPS-Range=2652/8.5% DPS-Convergence=70.7%

Core Stats: intellect=4703|4216(4069)
Generic Stats: mastery=70.65%|48.15%(297) multistrike=46.06%|39.47%(1285) versatility=4.81%|1.81%(235)
Spell Stats: power=7029|5903(1687) crit=19.28%|14.28%(1021) haste=15.11%|9.63%(963)