Now that we can "ninja" "dps" items..

[Deleted]

What are you going to do with some exceptionally sketchy choices? e.g. Some trinkets that give intellect and an on-use for haste. Are you just going to need for them?

Will the dpses accept it?

[Noradin]

int + on use haste obviously is a good healer trinket.
a haste proc would be more of an dd item.

[Deleted]

int + on use haste obviously is a good healer trinket.

That's what I think. But I expect "inb4 drama". The main reason is that there is a legitimate logistical concern even if you proved they are good, the dpses can't get your spirit trinkets, but you can get their dps trinkets.



PS. on-use haste is perfectly legitimate for dpses, I don't know why you think it's bad for dpses. That's blatantly false. It several cases/specs it's an advantage.

[Crudelitas]

He didn't say that it's bad for dps. He just said that it's viable for healers.

[zoefschildpad]

I reckon it would be much better if there was also a dps exclusive stat to balance out against spirit and bonus armor. I'm not sure what it should be for tanks to not want it, even locking out tank specs doesn't work with glad warriors around, but it should be possible to come up with something...

[anon5123]

I don't know why you think it's bad for dpses. That's blatantly false.

Did you even read his post? He never said it was bad for DPS. Seriously, read what he posted:

a haste proc would be more of an dd item.

He just said that on-haste is good for Healer, and proc would be better for DPS. Never said that on-use was bad for DPS.

Not sure if trolling.

[scorpious1109]

I think he meant that a healer going for proc haste would be sketchier than going after an on-use haste.

[Dierdre]

As far as I'm concerned if it doesn't have spirit, healers will roll for it once everyone else has it.

[anon5123]

As far as I'm concerned if it doesn't have spirit, healers will roll for it once everyone else has it.

Yeah, the only true "healer" items nowadays are things with spirit on them. Everything else is just general "caster" gear.

I mean, if DPS get priority on non-spirit trinkets, does that mean they get priority on non-spirit everything else?

Eh, whatever. Personal loot solves this problem!

[Dierdre]

Yeah, the only true "healer" items nowadays are things with spirit on them. Everything else is just general "caster" gear.

It's not that they're not "healer items", but if you think of gearing your raid group and not individual players, giving gear w/o spirit to dps first is likely in your best interest.

[anon5123]

giving gear w/o spirit to dps first is likely in your best interest.

But why?

"Gear without spirit" is equally useful for healers and DPS.

[Dierdre]

But why?

"Gear without spirit" is equally useful for healers and DPS.

Because gear with spirit is not equally useful for healers and DPS.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Because you generally gear Dps before Healers? Because increasing raid Dps is one of the most effective ways to kill bosses you are struggling with, while increasing raid Hps usually does nothing whatsoever?

[anon5123]

Because gear with spirit is not equally useful for healers and DPS.

But "gear with spirit" is limited to rings/necks/cloaks and some trinkets.

All other slots are incapable of having spirit on them.

So DPS are getting priority on almost all gear, then? That's not very fair.

Also, I finally remembered:

I reckon it would be much better if there was also a dps exclusive stat to balance out against spirit and bonus armor.

That stat was Hit Rating. Healers didn't need it because heals can't miss, and Tanks didn't need it too much because they could still easily hold threat without it (and taunts never missed), whereas DPS needed it to reach hit cap so they'd never miss.

But WoD did away with hit/expertise, so DPS no longer have a stat that is specific to their role.

increasing raid Dps is one of the most effective ways to kill bosses you are struggling with, while increasing raid Hps usually does nothing whatsoever?

Got some actual proof to back this up? Last time I checked, raiding was not all about DPS. You still need geared tanks and geared healers.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Got some actual proof to back this up? Last time I checked, raiding was not all about DPS. You still need geared tanks and geared healers.

You need Tanks to be geared enough to Tank the bosses, and you need Healers to keep everybody alive for as long as the fight lasts. More Dps always makes everything easier. Proof? How about common sense and logic? More Dps = shorter fights = less healing required and less time to fail at mechanics. This is the way guilds have geared since WotLK, if not TBC (when "give your MT all gear first" was still a thing).


You really cannot sit there and actually think that giving a Healer some awesome wep/trinket would give your raid the same benefit as if you gave it to one of your Dps?

[Dierdre]

But "gear with spirit" is limited to rings/necks/cloaks and some trinkets.

Fair point, those are the items I was talking about.

[Tharkash]

I was just talking about this tonight with my raid group. Healers do not get dibs on dps caster gear because when the spirit gear drops they are the only ones that can use it. If they take the dps gear then that healing piece is wasted whereas if they didn't take the dps piece the dps gets it and the healing piece, even if a little "worse" doesn't get wasted.

[Deleted]

You need Tanks to be geared enough to Tank the bosses, and you need Healers to keep everybody alive for as long as the fight lasts. More Dps always makes everything easier. Proof? How about common sense and logic? More Dps = shorter fights = less healing required and less time to fail at mechanics. This is the way guilds have geared since WotLK, if not TBC (when "give your MT all gear first" was still a thing).


You really cannot sit there and actually think that giving a Healer some awesome wep/trinket would give your raid the same benefit as if you gave it to one of your Dps?

Any healer who does not pass on those items and give them to a dd is just not into getting server firsts / a high "rating".
If you ask Top Guilds they will all answer the same : Tanks ->Dps -> Healer, its just the best way to fast clear content.

[Cerus]

Non spirit items should always go to DPS first since spirit is a pure healer stat now.

[Jimjam38]

Disc was already in this boat in MoP. We didn't need spirit. Prior to 6.0, BiS was Double Amp, after it was either double amp or amp + bboy. If you has absurdly low spirit before 6.0 then you would get the siegecrafter trinket, but most never got that low, nor needed it.

And the boat is still the same, dps will get it before healers.

As has already been said, healers are almost never the barrier to hardcore progression. Either you need to kill the boss faster or the dps need to avoid the fire more or you can just get another healer if there's no hard dps requirement. And as such, healers are never going to be the priority to gear up.