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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ferseba18 View Post
    So i have tried to apply to 2 different guilds who cleared Heroic SoO back on 5.4 five months after the raid got released with my dk dps/tank to several guilds but i got rejected due to screenshot, While praising my Logs (since i use blizz's basic UI). But i have all i need for raiding,dbm,recount,omen,etc.

    Anything and even have lot of keybind for my different bars to quickly manage all i have on raiding.

    i even joined a raid group back on 5.4 and went from 2/14Heroic to 11/14Heroic in a single night even besting the other tank many times, but it got disbanded really quick. I kept trying some guild groups, either rejected due to UI or the group was literally so bad it made me want to hit my own head against the desk.

    I did manage to get 13/14heroic eventually but due to no luck with groups i gave up and only Finished progress after patch 6.0 landed.

    So exactly WHY its so relevant to not have Blizz's basic UI for a decent group? I'm not asking to join blood legion,blood runs cold,paragon,method or anything like that, but i do want to join a group who will clear content in several months and finish before next patch drops on Mythic and i usually can raid from 8 PM EST onwards. And i don't mind waiting 4-5 months to fully clear raids on Mythic as long as its done before next tier drops,but this UI thing keeps really getting so annoying...

    Someone explaining me about this and giving me a hand about what is so relevant about UI(and how it should look like) to be considered ''decent'' for raiding will really help me
    The why's really depend on the group but most just simply are looking for like minded people that fit them and what they do. That's the simple "why".

    My best advice: treat not a small number of raiding guilds as cliques/frats/exclusive groups. They, whether you like it or not or agree or not, have hoops(standards) they expect others to jump through.

    If they don't know you before you join(ie you didnt get in based off of knowing someone who slides you in) they're going to use basic tools to discern whether you fit what they do or not.

    Obviously, one of those would be a screen of your UI.

    Another way to look at it is that you're a rookie looking to join their team. The onus is on you to fit in with them, not for them to go out of their perceived way to accommodate you. To them UI's/addons are tools to many of them that reflect you are being an asset(whether you think so or not). Perhaps even some of them don't actually use all they guild's standards expect to get in with. But they're not needing to prove themselves any more as as a plebe is expected to do.

    To be clear, Im not condoning groups that use those standards as a black and white way to determine someone who can be an asset to their guild. I think it is a recipe of things that determines who can do well, personally. But I also have been in guilds that for them, perception is everything and they dont have the time/desire to develop people to raid with them, preferring instead to just go with people they perceive to be able to hit the ground running(whether true or not).

    So you've a few options:

    1. Do a screenie of the UI they want(ie by seeing other apps/talking with others in already) and not use said UI actually when you're in the group(once in they're most likely not going to be carding you on your ui over and over).

    2. Network yourself with those who make yay or nay decisions and circumvent that.

    3. Try to learn to use the UI/addons/bells and whistles that they expect of you. In the short run it may be troublesome but there may be potential for it to improve what you do. Yes, you may do better/be better without such but then again you may improve what you do by slight or significant amounts too. You dont know until you give it a try.

    In the end it really just will depend on how much you want to be apart of what those groups do.
    Last edited by Sanguinesun; 2014-12-01 at 04:39 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinesun View Post
    1. Do a screenie of the UI they want(ie by seeing other apps/talking with others in already) and not use said UI actually when you're in the group(once in they're most likely not going to be carding you on your ui over and over).
    I'm not exactly sure lying on your application is the best way to go about introducing yourself to a guild.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2014-12-01 at 04:36 AM.

  3. #43
    I use the default ui, i have used elvui or whatever its called and some other one. I couldnt take it, i was back to the default ui after a few hours. Theres nothing any ui can offer that the default ui doesnt, any guild that thinks otherwise, is simply not good enough to have me.

    Ive been in all sorts of guilds, top 5 in the server(stormrage us btw), leveling, casual, pvp, and i have never been asked about my ui.
    Last edited by Ulfric Trumpcloak; 2014-12-01 at 04:50 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    I'm not exactly sure lying on your application is the best way to go about introducing yourself to a guild.
    If the top guild in the world wanted its members to be active in sacraficing babies because they thought it increased their DPS, im sure plenty of applicants would lie and photoshop themselves doing so just so they could get a spot in the roster.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    If the top guild in the world wanted its members to be active in sacraficing babies because they thought it increased their DPS, im sure plenty of applicants would lie and photoshop themselves doing so just so they could get a spot in the roster.
    Yeah, because ritual baby sacrifice and a custom UI are totally comparable. If you don't agree with the requirements to join a guild, don't apply to that guild. Not that complicated of a concept, I'm sure there are plenty of guilds out there willing to ignore your use of the default UI.

    Deceiving guilds that want a bit more out of their raiders for your own personal gain is hilariously selfish. Guilds are not a form of employment you desperately require, you should want to join to be a part of that specific group of players. If you can't fill out an application honestly you're probably not going to get along with any of the raiders that did.

  6. #46
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    Raid guilds make unreasonable demands at times. It's kind of amusing, though I'm sure it's also very frustrating for someone apping to a raid guild. The apping process for a guild in WoW is actually sometimes more intrusive and in-depth than the real life job interviews that we do in my industry. Find a more reasonable and intelligent guild, OP. Or if you absolutely MUST be in one of those guilds making silly demands, as another poster said, lie to them. *shrug* Do what you have to do to have fun, and you're NOT hurting anyone by playing in a way that's more comfortable for you. Some raid guilds, usually tryhard ones, want to control you, every aspect of your gameplay, and sometimes they try to weasel their tentacles into your real life as well (I've had raid guilds DEMAND my IRL phone # for example. Fuck that, my private time is MINE.) - Do not let them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    I'm not exactly sure lying on your application is the best way to go about introducing yourself to a guild.
    I'm sure the guild wouldn't appreciate it, but if they make unreasonable demands and you really want to join that guild anyway, it's better to lie to them than to start playing in a way that's less comfortable to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    Deceiving guilds that want a bit more out of their raiders for your own personal gain is hilariously selfish. Guilds are not a form of employment you desperately require, you should want to join to be a part of that specific group of players. If you can't fill out an application honestly you're probably not going to get along with any of the raiders that did.
    You're right, it's a guild, not a career. It's a guild, in a video game. Not your military unit, not your career, not your family. A group of people in a video game using each other to get to their goals. If you have to tell a small lie to get into that group, so be it.
    Last edited by RoKPaNda; 2014-12-01 at 05:00 AM.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    I'm sure the guild wouldn't appreciate it, but if they make unreasonable demands and you really want to join that guild anyway, it's better to lie to them than to start playing in a way that's less comfortable to you.
    Forcing your way into a guild by lying to them is just as bad if not worse than a guild making unreasonable demands of its raiders. Be better than this and conduct yourself in a respectable manner. You're not going to earn any friends by lying to people.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    Forcing your way into a guild by lying to them is just as bad if not worse than a guild making unreasonable demands of its raiders. Be better than this and conduct yourself in a respectable manner. You're not going to earn any friends by lying to people.
    FORCING? Lol.

    Maybe lying on your guild app isn't the decent thing to do, but I think you're taking raiding guilds too seriously. Maybe I'm also not taking them seriously enough though.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    FORCING? Lol.

    Maybe lying on your guild app isn't the decent thing to do, but I think you're taking raiding guilds too seriously. Maybe I'm also not taking them seriously enough though.
    It has nothing to do with raiding guilds specifically. I just think it's disrespectful to blatantly lie to people you should be trying to become friends with. Talk about starting off on the wrong foot. =/

  10. #50
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    I find it mindblowing that ANYONE is even trying to defend the idea of judging an applicant on his UI.

    Logs, performance, trial - All these things will help you discern.

    And here's a pro tip - The reason of wether you will beat a mythic encounter, MOST LIKELY, is not because you had that one UI or not.

    It's a piss poor excuse to just nitpick and essentialy say "I don't like you/You are not good enough."

    If you EVER, EVER raided high end - You KNOW, that skill and performance goes WAAAAY above a f'cking UI pic, ANY day.

    And really, if you raided high end and still defend this argument - Did your guild make or break, on that progress, because your raiders had your f'cking UI?

    Was it not because of the countless wipes, or maybe the few wipes, but imense skill of your raiders?

    What in the thousand burning hells, does a f'cking UI have to do with it.

    Get, f'cking, real. Jesus christ.

    It is EXTREMELY few cases, where it really will matter - multi-target dot tracking, and perhaps bleeding-edge guilds.

    But dedicated Raiding Guilds? Get out.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorsfan View Post
    I find it mindblowing that ANYONE is even trying to defend the idea of judging an applicant on his UI.

    Logs, performance, trial - All these things will help you discern.

    And here's a pro tip - The reason of wether you will beat a mythic encounter, MOST LIKELY, is not because you had that one UI or not.

    It's a piss poor excuse to just nitpick and essentialy say "I don't like you/You are not good enough."

    If you EVER, EVER raided high end - You KNOW, that skill and performance goes WAAAAY above a f'cking UI pic, ANY day.

    And really, if you raided high end and still defend this argument - Did your guild make or break, on that progress, because your raiders had your f'cking UI?

    Was it not because of the countless wipes, or maybe the few wipes, but imense skill of your raiders?

    What in the thousand burning hells, does a f'cking UI have to do with it.

    Get, f'cking, real. Jesus christ.

    It is EXTREMELY few cases, where it really will matter - multi-target dot tracking, and perhaps bleeding-edge guilds.

    But dedicated Raiding Guilds? Get out.

    Sounds like someone uses default ui haha.

  12. #52
    Just think of it this way, if this is what they're like, do you really want to be in their guild? For the best IMO.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by proVoke View Post
    Sounds like someone uses default ui haha.
    Wether i use it or not is irrelevant - It does not render my arguments null.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Doorsfan View Post
    -snip-
    I was going to write a response to each line, but then I thought, "This is a perfect example to why it's important to ask certain questions in an app." If topics like this sets you off, you probably wouldn't last long in a high end raiding guild, which makes me question why you're using "high end raiding" so much as a point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorsfan View Post
    Wether i use it or not is irrelevant - It does not render my arguments null.
    Well, you're correct in saying your arguments are there regardless - they're just incredibly biased if you do infact use default UI, if your tantrum-laden tirade didn't ruin your argument already.
    Last edited by Monstercloud; 2014-12-01 at 06:09 AM.

  15. #55
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the default ui assuming you have DBM/BigWigs, Omnicc or perhaps something that helps a specific class/spec perform and track things better. You don't need a big and fancy UI that tells you everything, perhaps in a way that is a little too much.

    If a guild would nitpick beyond that about your UI, then that's the least of your worries because when you enter a guild like that you might find yourself wishing you hadn't.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    (I've had raid guilds DEMAND my IRL phone # for example. Fuck that, my private time is MINE.)
    How dare you question ridiculous standards and assumptions! That says a lot about your willingness to be a top raider/husband/scientist/politician/grocery bagger/CEO/doctor/bank accountant/plumber/student!

    Not to mention the ability to do what really matters in any Raid setting, which is #1 stay alive #2 abide by special raid-affecting mechanics #3 top charts. All you need for this is preparation, concentration and some decent PC Hardware along with good ol' DBM complemented with a minor addon or two.

    Unfortunately, the average WoW player sets the bar very low when it comes to individual skill and dependability. A lot of people play Blizzard games, many of them not really gamers. This has the unfortunate consequence of convincing "the average above the average" that they are the epitome of elite. Some particularly sad subset of elitists (in non-sponsored guilds) enjoy turning down applicants as if to confirm the fallacy that they are an authority in all matters WoW-related. Worst case scenario, one might even run into a bunch of Dunning-Kruger-effect-afflicted idiots.

    In reality, interviewing someone for a guild spot in games should be a bit more like scouting for talents in a festival. People should be friendly and figure out if there's chemistry, perceive through the minor details (or discuss them out) because success comes when 100% of your raid is committed and 'trying'. Which typically happens when people are having fun and enjoy their time with each other. Because let's not kid ourselves, nobody is getting a paycheck clearing Mythic.

    So yes OP, I would tend to agree with those who say you have dodged a bullet. The experience would've ended badly, either for you or for them. There's little fun to be had in those environments, and life is too short to spend so many hours a week doing something you don't fully enjoy. Guilds with bad officers invariably collapse or run into more issues than they are worth

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    It's a really dumb roundabout way of measuring one's commitment to doing what they can to succeed based on issues or lack of commitment in irrelevant parts of their lives. I work in an industrial setting with many regulations and controls and one of the higher-ups loves to exaggerate simple mistakes and problems like a traffic ticket or not displaying the required parking decal because if that person has those issues or can't be bothered to remember a decal, then how can they be trusted to follow the regulations and controls while working?

    Rejecting an application based on irrelevant personal gameplay preferences is just dumb for any guild, even Blood Legion or Paragon. I'd agree with something like having no addons because you simply can't raid properly with a pure default UI, but to nitpick on a UI that has the bare minimum addons to succeed is just ridiculous.
    Think about it like this: If I couldn't trust you with the little things, how can I be sure I can trust you with the big things? That's what your supervisor is on about, and it's something you'll most likely do with your kids.

    When we look at UI screenshots, we aren't looking for specific UI packages. We don't even care if the person is using mostly default UI. We ask to see what the person's UI looks like in a raid setting, in combat. Why? We're looking to see if the pertinent information is being shown, whether too little or too much is being shown, whether cooldowns and abilities can be easily tracked, whether "oh crap" buttons are hotkeyed and not clicked. Things like that. I have seen nightmare UIs posted from tanks with 25 man raid frames placed dead center on the screen with Mik's and everything splashed all over, Barkskin and potions and healthstones not having a hotkey... That's what raiding guilds are critiquing when they ask for your UI screenshot, not whether you have Elv or Tukui or any other specific package.

    If anything, OP should have provided the screenshot in question so that people could have had a better reference instead of hypothesizing about why some random guild declined his app.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Monstercloud View Post
    I was going to write a response to each line, but then I thought, "This is a perfect example to why it's important to ask certain questions in an app." If topics like this sets you off, you probably wouldn't last long in a high end raiding guild, which makes me question why you're using "high end raiding" so much as a point...



    Well, you're correct in saying your arguments are there regardless - they're just incredibly biased if you do infact use default UI, if your tantrum-laden tirade didn't ruin your argument already.
    The question itself does not tick me off.

    The idea of sheer biggotry and the attempt to try and convert that into some "refined logic", pisses me off.

    I have raided top-end content when it was current, expansion upon expansion - As a healer, as a DPS, and some as a Tank.

    And i can tell you - NEVER, EVER, EVER - On the freaking face of the earth - have i seen it to have been the deciding factor, to wether a person performed or not.

    On Illidan, you missed a shield block - You dead. On Vashj, you miscommunicated - You wiped the raid cuz you're making them all get over-run. Kael'Thas, you miss your CD's and what not -Same as Illidan, You dead.

    And i could just count this list, to freaking infinity - The molescule relevance of an UI, is not REMOTELY, relevant to an high-end environment.

    And please, just lay off the air of superiority just because you happen to have some freaking UI or Add-on. You want to talk arguments ; Fine - But don't try to be smug about something as an add-on, when i bet you don't have anything to really contribute with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailthas View Post
    Think about it like this: If I couldn't trust you with the little things, how can I be sure I can trust you with the big things? That's what your supervisor is on about, and it's something you'll most likely do with your kids.

    When we look at UI screenshots, we aren't looking for specific UI packages. We don't even care if the person is using mostly default UI. We ask to see what the person's UI looks like in a raid setting, in combat. Why? We're looking to see if the pertinent information is being shown, whether too little or too much is being shown, whether cooldowns and abilities can be easily tracked, whether "oh crap" buttons are hotkeyed and not clicked. Things like that. I have seen nightmare UIs posted from tanks with 25 man raid frames placed dead center on the screen with Mik's and everything splashed all over, Barkskin and potions and healthstones not having a hotkey... That's what raiding guilds are critiquing when they ask for your UI screenshot, not whether you have Elv or Tukui or any other specific package.

    If anything, OP should have provided the screenshot in question so that people could have had a better reference instead of hypothesizing about why some random guild declined his app.
    And what if they still perform? What if you have, concrete logs and have him on trial - to see that he actually performs just as he should?

    You are effectively doing nothing but sounding pretencious and spouting biggotry at that point.

  19. #59
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    OP (anjd others). u need to have addons which track buffs and such, especially if ur dps, less looking up at ur buff bar
    *looks up>aoe under feet>moves out 2sec to late>dead GG*
    WeakAuras2 and such is kinda required if ur dpsing, if u dont get it, ull lose out on dps
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    OP (anjd others). u need to have addons which track buffs and such, especially if ur dps, less looking up at ur buff bar
    *looks up>aoe under feet>moves out 2sec to late>dead GG*
    WeakAuras2 and such is kinda required if ur dpsing, if u dont get it, ull lose out on dps
    So, let me get this straight, it takes you 2 seconds, to draw all your attention - so much in fact, that all your spacial awareness goes away - to just see an icon?

    If anything, you should be EXTREMELY familiar with your rotations and buff durations if you are even REMOTELY competent at your class.

    What you're describing is a bad player relying on add-ons, compensating for being bad.

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