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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    When blizz introduced Active Mitigation, they didn't want tanks to have to worry about maximizing mitigation, all the tank things (Positioning, ect), their damage output, AND threat management. So they decided to cut one of those, and Threat generation got the cut (because honestly, having to throttle your damage because of a undergeared/bad tank isn't fun at all)
    That definitely doesn't fit the timeline.

    Threat as a relevant mechanic was removed for all intents and purposes at the end of WotLK.

    Active Mitigation wasn't added until quite a bit later...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosoulsu View Post
    I think it was me who said it.
    I miss having to think about aggro, myself - as a tank and as DPS.

    FFXIV tanking is a lot more engaging because you actually have to think about Aggro, when you and your DPS have relatively equal gear. If a Black Mage goes full-on all-cooldowns DPS without Quelling Strikes (CD to reduce aggro), it's impossible to rip aggro back from them, even with a Taunt (which puts you 1-aggro above the current highest aggro target).
    That's a lot of fun. Fighting for aggro makes tanking engaging. I find on current content that if I have too much off-target time as a tank, healers' aggro can overtake mine and I'll have to taunt coming out of a phase transition to start building it up again.

    In WoW, tanking is incredibly simple and boring.
    It's good that you picked that specific instance because BLM AoE on a gigantic pack is the only scenario in which you are going to have issues holding aggro, especially now that Flash was buffed. When I tank as Warrior and Iron Cyclone with Berserk, nothing's pulling that aggro off me and I'm like at 20x the DPS's aggro the entire pull. Also, if the BLM -does- use Quilling Strikes, then he's not pulling aggro off you and it's not up to you.

    Low lvl dungeons are more interesting in that game but aggro at high levels is mostly a joke.



    The reason it's this way in WoW btw is because if you have a tank in LFR that is the appropriate ilvl, it'll be 100% impossible to tank with mythic geared DPS decimating the boss otherwise, WoW has very high DPS scaling for ilvl in comparison to FFXIV.
    Last edited by mmoc06f0881615; 2014-12-02 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    I miss my aoe taunts though. Boss aggro isnt hard to get and keep, but get a flow of constantly spawning adds and it makes me wish I was on my dk when Im playing my prot pali. It normally takes 3 abilties to hit a mob to get it to stick to me, so thats maybe a hammer of righteous, a holy wrath and oh wait its run off after the hunter and that ones run off after the mage. You start chasing mobs around and lose control of everything (also make yr melees life a nightmare) or you let the odd add creep through to munch dps, save taunts for mobs on healers and /shrug when your party points out your a bad tank.

  4. #24
    Theres nothing fun about, as a dps, having to stop dpsing and stand there because your threat is catching the tank. Or not being able to start dpsing at the beginning of a fight until the warrior has laid down 3 sunders. Theres no positive gameplay value in that, so it was changed. Tank gameplay now is a lot more about positioning and active mitigation and imo its more fun now than it ever has been in the past.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyranthian View Post
    Theres nothing fun about, as a dps, having to stop dpsing and stand there because your threat is catching the tank. Or not being able to start dpsing at the beginning of a fight until the warrior has laid down 3 sunders. Theres no positive gameplay value in that, so it was changed. Tank gameplay now is a lot more about positioning and active mitigation and imo its more fun now than it ever has been in the past.
    Aggro management may have made more sense when the expectation was the content would be done by a cohesive guild group gearing up together, so tanks and dps had similar gear levels. But that's not a good assumption anymore, if it ever was.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponies View Post
    I was just reading the thread where some guy was talking about being anxious about tanking and someone wrote "its not like you have to fight for aggro in wow" and it got me thinking. It's pretty true at the moment but it wasn't always like that.

    I remember playing in tbc and wotlk where as a mage i would have to watch my aggro and as a tank i would often have to fight for it.

    Now i go in spam swipe and i instantly have aggro as a tank and when I'm dps'ing i'm really not worried about pulling off the boss.
    When did this all change?
    The added in huge amounts of threat bonuses for tanks. We haven't had to worry about that pretty much since Ulduar.

  7. #27
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    I miss healaggro and sucking at aoe aggro. I don't miss the lack of tank aggro scaling.

  8. #28
    Very large buff to threat generation for tanks came with Firelands. I thought this was common knowledge.

  9. #29
    I remember in wrath being 10m heroic geared and losing aggro to 25m geared dps in pugs constantly then having them bitch tellin me I'm bad when they were pulling a ton more dps than the dps I raided with. In Cata iirc, as long as you were geared enough for the content you didn't have problems with aggro and in Mists vengeance, and other threat buffs, just made it laughable. For WoD I'm pretty sure they decided threat just isn't "fun" so they did away with it, buffing tank threat even more and giving you a huge threat boost after you taunt something.

    That being said, there's tons of reasons to be anxious about tanking for the first time in pugs/LFD/LFR because any mistake you make the whole group will be up your ass to no end. As a tank you just gotta roll with the punches and figure stuff out through lots of trial and error as well as being overly prepared for each and every pull, or you could take the toxic approach and get extremely defensive when a group inevitably starts bitching about your mistakes.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    They tried making aggro relevant again in Cataclysm. It didn't work well.
    Less relevant and more laborious, further convoluted by the slow-ramp paradox of Vengeance. Boss aggro may not have been as demanding in Wrath as Burning Crusade but it was still linear and intuitive: you'd get a solid lead but ease off and a well-geared, high-output DPS could overtake you. That was fun. In Cataclysm, if your raid/party was without a hunter or rogue, trying to hang onto a boss was unpredictable and managing packs was irritating. By Tier 13, much of the design effort had been reverted; by Mists, Vengeance was marginalized aside from runaway tanks pulling off each other. Now, it's not a challenge; nor is it a source of stress.

  11. #31
    They buffed threat to 500% a couple of years ago, which basically made threat and aggro redundant in my opinion.

    As long as you have actually hit the mob and are pressing buttons (be it with your fingers, palms, fists or forehead) you won't lose threat on anything.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Blizzard decided that a tank's first responsibility was their own survivability and handling some mechanics directly rather than hoping their teammates don't use their 3m cooldowns on pull. I think it's a far better direction but even amongst my friends I've heard complaints. Those can be summed up as "I miss being able to generate threat, get it high enough, then afk" though.
    Exactly.
    There is nothing compelling about your play being dictated by the decisions of others you play with.

    It is not compelling for the dps who has to hold back, not being able to play to the best of their capability.
    It is not fun for the tank having to work harder to deal with poor decisions from dps or healers.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2014-12-04 at 09:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  13. #33
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    I remember Slenish the destruction warlock, once he dps, tanks beg him to stop
    Regardless I do miss the old days when aggro was something to think about, but game is far from those days, warlocks don't have searing pain anymore for example (no he wasn't using it, he was just almost top gear dps)
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  14. #34
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    While it is a bit sad that aggro is a non-issue nowadays, I think that Blizzards focus on active mitigation is better for gameplay. Having to cap your dps to keep from aggroing is not fun for a dps, the best part of being a dps is squeesing the crap out of your class to get the maximum amount of dps. I also think tanks in general prefer getting better at active mitigation than having to focus on tab-targetting to keep aggro.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabiddog View Post
    Currently as a tank there is enough to worry about even without worrying about aggro. Back in TBC/Classic when raid bosses had as many mechnanics as current dungeon bosses have , aggro would have been interesting. But with the current mix of mechanics that tanks have to deal with , losing aggro as a raid mechanic doesnt count. If you think tanking is too easy , you've been doing content for which you are overgeared or doing lfr-rate raiding.
    you really think boss didn't have mechanic in TBC? have you tank SSC, TK, hyjal?

  16. #36
    Tanking has never been better than it is now. Threat is just a glorified dps number, and it effectivly hardcaps your raids dps aswell.

    I feel responsible when I die or drop low these days, could I've done something different? Rotated my CD's better etc? It's alot more enjoyable than just leaving it all up to the healer while you "dps".

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Comp View Post
    Very large buff to threat generation for tanks came with Firelands. I thought this was common knowledge.
    It must not be that common, because the buff came in WotLK - long before Firelands.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    It must not be that common, because the buff came in WotLK - long before Firelands.
    They buffed threat in Wrath, tried to walk that back for early Cata, then gave up and massively buffed it again.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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