RoP or IF or MI for Highmaul raiding

[Array x]

Is the movement such a non factor in highmaul that us mages (frost) will be using Rune of Power again, or are Mirror Images beating them dps wise. I am not too sure myself so I was just wondering what the community thought.

[Csnyder]

just like every other raid, it depends on the fight

[Porra]

I always thought the general progression was Incanters Flow until youre comfortable enough with a fight to use RoP or just stick with IF if a fight has a lot of movement. This could be completely wrong but this is what Ive read, not sure if its changed at all.

[royals]

I point you to Frosted's beautiful simcraft work on the Altered Time forums.
http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

1, 2, and 3 target stacked with talent choices ta-boot. Enjoy, there is a lot of learning for all of us to be done!

[Deleted]

I'd go with incanters flow while you learn the fights, see when you can line up cd's etc, I'm just gunna use it anyway because RoP is clunky and has restrictions and outside of mirror images, frost hits like a wet noodle

[Kenbud]

Here are our logs for the night. Got 6/7 normal with 3 mages in for each fight and for the most part we all used a different set up. I ran IN/MI/TV for every encounter and came out on top overall buy a very small margin overall. Moving into heroic tomorrow i will be trying IF on Tectus and Twins but sticking with TV as i do not like the issues that can arise with Crystal and feel its the most consistent.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&boss=-2

[Mikalbolton]

I was so sad to find out that all 3 of your mages were frost last night (for selfish reasons, and not to pass judgement)

I had the joy of being stuck on "character not found" for a solid 4+ hours of my life last night, so my scheduled raid did not occur. (worst experience since WOTLK release night)

All the most recent theory crafting I was reading was pointing strongly towards arcane being competitive, especially on a fight like the Butcher and was hoping I could see either a 1% or 2% gap if one of your mages was arcane.

I know this discussion is never ending, but did either of your 3 mages consider Arcane or even try Arcane for any of the encounters or was it something not even on the radar?

edit: As I continue to read elsewhere, the clear signs point towards Frost being stronger on all encounters, regardless of secondary stats & any other factor

[Armbre]

I was so sad to find out that all 3 of your mages were frost last night (for selfish reasons, and not to pass judgement)

I had the joy of being stuck on "character not found" for a solid 4+ hours of my life last night, so my scheduled raid did not occur. (worst experience since WOTLK release night)

All the most recent theory crafting I was reading was pointing strongly towards arcane being competitive, especially on a fight like the Butcher and was hoping I could see either a 1% or 2% gap if one of your mages was arcane.

I know this discussion is never ending, but did either of your 3 mages consider Arcane or even try Arcane for any of the encounters or was it something not even on the radar?

Arcane would be okay for butcher and thats about it because arcanes damage falls off harder than any other spec in the game when movement comes in, so unless you map everyfight and find the min number of steps to take frost will still be ahead by a decent chunk.

[Mikalbolton]

^^ appreciate the feedback.

I'm returning to the raiding scene after a small hiatus, and I know Blizzard continually tries to push for multiple specs to be viable in PVE, and I just don't see that as the case, at least this early in the expansion.

Gear scaling might help some as our guild progresses, but I still think the abilities and talents the Mage class has endured over the course of the past 10 years has limited our rotation and flexibility in PVE situations a lot more than PVP, as mages have and always will have a dominant role in the PVP scene.

Just my .02

[Array x]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/4010/ Here are my logs from last night as well, I ran IN/MI/PC for every encounter.

- - - Updated - - -

I am very interested in TV and may test it out tonight.

[Deleted]

All the theorycrafting goes out the window when your tank gets itchy feet and moves the boss away from the crystal

I'm using TV - far less frustrating.

[Deleted]

Depends on the fight.

In general, I use MI for almost every fight.

PC for all fights except iron twins or whatever they're called. (Could argue tectus as well)

[Deleted]

All the theorycrafting goes out the window when your tank gets itchy feet and moves the boss away from the crystal

I'm using TV - far less frustrating.

Depends on boss so much. Not going to use Crystal yet on tectus. When we learn fight better and movement gets less then i might try it

[Mikalbolton]

PC has too much perfect scenario DPS boosts for me to give it up.

I mean I feel like even on the butcher, it's better DPS than any other option. You do have to learn how to maximize its potential and have an aware tank, but even with its long cool-down, it has IMMENSE optimization capabilities, and you will see 35k+ burst even with 630 ilvl. Again, you have to adapt to that play-style and cycle cool-downs around Prismatic Crystal's use.

In addition to all that (not to mention any of the pure data that support PC > all), many fights in Highmaul rely on HEAVY BURST windows, phases, and mechanics, so I really don't know why so many mages are hesitant to learn this awesome and unique 100 level talent and boost their own raid by being a good & responsible DPS

[Kenbud]

PC has too much perfect scenario DPS boosts for me to give it up.

I mean I feel like even on the butcher, it's better DPS than any other option. You do have to learn how to maximize its potential and have an aware tank, but even with its long cool-down, it has IMMENSE optimization capabilities, and you will see 35k+ burst even with 630 ilvl. Again, you have to adapt to that play-style and cycle cool-downs around Prismatic Crystal's use.

In addition to all that (not to mention any of the pure data that support PC > all), many fights in Highmaul rely on HEAVY BURST windows, phases, and mechanics, so I really don't know why so many mages are hesitant to learn this awesome and unique 100 level talent and boost their own raid by being a good & responsible DPS

A good and responsible DPS? So me using a set up that sims ~800 dps lower then the "optimal" set up and yet parsing in the 95%+ due it being more consistent and flexible makes me a bad and irresponsible raid member? Its not all about theory and math, its about in game application. Good and responsible DPS know this.

[Deleted]

A good and responsible DPS? So me using a set up that sims ~800 dps lower then the "optimal" set up and yet parsing in the 95%+ due it being more consistent and flexible makes me a bad and irresponsible raid member? Its not all about theory and math, its about in game application. Good and responsible DPS know this.

Good and responsible DPS also know how to actually use the mathmatically better DPS option efficiently though. PC is better on single target, and there's no real argument against not using it in a guild environment. If your tanks are being stupid, call them out on it. Our tanks are really good and if they see a crystal they make sure they don't move away from it. Just talk to your tanks, raiding is all about communication.

[Noobles]

As much as I hated PC I now swear by it every where on every fight. When we did our guild run I never knew where to place it on normal run. I did it again a pug and absolutely spanked it . MI with IN ....it's awesome ....

Even on twins it was insane???even better if the bosses are close together like we had them. It's a no brainer and once you train your reflex it becomes so easy.

Usual opening
2mins MI and orb
3mins everything and prismatic..IN
4 min MI orb
5 min orb prismatic
6 min everything prismatic MI

Thank you to the orig poster for this...can't find you ...you saved my mage!

[Deleted]

Good and responsible DPS also know how to actually use the mathmatically better DPS option efficiently though. PC is better on single target, and there's no real argument against not using it in a guild environment. If your tanks are being stupid, call them out on it. Our tanks are really good and if they see a crystal they make sure they don't move away from it. Just talk to your tanks, raiding is all about communication.

Yep. When you know there is time bosses doesnt need to be moved just say to tank i am putting crystal down, down move them. If you put crystal down when tanks need to move bosses it is your own fault.

[Kenbud]

Good and responsible DPS also know how to actually use the mathmatically better DPS option efficiently though. PC is better on single target, and there's no real argument against not using it in a guild environment. If your tanks are being stupid, call them out on it. Our tanks are really good and if they see a crystal they make sure they don't move away from it. Just talk to your tanks, raiding is all about communication.

I totally agree that the for fights like the Butcher and Kargath PC can be a better choice but will argue that every other fight has mechanics or variances that can cause problems for PC and also with a little help from the RNG gods TV can be insane. My point was people look at Simcraft and think its the "end all be all thats the way it has to be" but its simply not true. This 2/7 normal guy looked at a chart and then indirectly called me bad because i favor another talent, this is the issue i have with simcraft.

[Frost1129]

I totally agree that the for fights like the Butcher and Kargath PC can be a better choice but will argue that every other fight has mechanics or variances that can cause problems for PC and also with a little help from the RNG gods TV can be insane. My point was people look at Simcraft and think its the "end all be all thats the way it has to be" but its simply not true. This 2/7 normal guy looked at a chart and then indirectly called me bad because i favor another talent, this is the issue i have with simcraft.

That's an end user issue, not a SimC issue