Saving Frozen Orb for Prismatic Crystal?

[Deleted]

Borrowing the thread. How does Mirror Images work? Will they pick up glyphed IV/procs/Hero etc. while they are up? Can they take advantage of any of these at all?
I have at the back of my head that you should pop IV before MI which would imply they can't pick up buffs while they are summoned, but will mirror your buffs when you summon them?
If they do mirror your buffs, does that mean they will keep the glyphed IV effect even though it runs out on you?

They update their stats dinamically, so if you get say a trinket proc after you have casted them their stats get updated and they also gain the bonus from the trinket. If a buff runs out on you, it also runs out on them.

[Deleted]

Very easy way for everyone to realize why you should always save orb for PC:

- To use orb with PC, you need to delay orb by 50%, efficiently making it 50% less effective.
- When delaying orb for PC, you make it 110% stronger every time you use it.

110% > 50%

This is not even accounting the fact you get more FoF procs for PC.

[Invrlose]

Can someone help me out? There's a mage on my server who had a decent parse and looking at the log it looks like they've got no clue what they're doing with regards to orb and PC. Just luck? They parsed 16th place on Heroic butcher for mages.

[Sheridanjohn]

Can someone help me out? There's a mage on my server who had a decent parse and looking at the log it looks like they've got no clue what they're doing with regards to orb and PC. Just luck? They parsed 16th place on Heroic butcher for mages.

Top guilds are hiding logs and/or carrying alts. Ranks don't mean much right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Top guilds are hiding logs and/or carrying alts. Ranks don't mean much right now.

Sorry I should of answered better. Playing optimally and parsing good are two different things.
If this mage had played optimally he would of done more dps.

FO + PC is a mathematical increase in damage, there is no debating this.

[NjxCrash]

honestly what i do is use them both at start blow 2nd orb while pc has 30 seconds on it so i hold the crystal for 30 seconds while my 3rd orb comes up seems to work well for me going to try holding it for pc tomorrow though and see how it does

[Trustbucket]

Very easy way for everyone to realize why you should always save orb for PC:

- To use orb with PC, you need to delay orb by 50%, efficiently making it 50% less effective.
- When delaying orb for PC, you make it 110% stronger every time you use it.

110% > 50%

This is not even accounting the fact you get more FoF procs for PC.

Idk if I'm really tired and misunderstanding what you are saying, but because you delay it 50% does not make it 50% less effective. Going by your math if you were to delay frozen orb 100% to 2 min then the orbs would be 0% as effective as the previous scenario, which is obviously false. The orbs would be 50% as effective because 1 min (original cd) / 2 min (delayed 100% cd). In the scenario which they were talking about delaying for PC would make strictly the total frozen orb damage 66.6% of what it would be to use on CD. (100% cd/ 150% cd)

Edit: Going by the same logic if you delay your FB 200% more than its base CD, its -100% as "efficient" as using on CD. Stop attacking you're healing the boss!!1one. Some Blugatti math going on right now.

In the next line you compare the damage bonus of PC to the percentage of damage frozen orb when delaying compared to using on CD. I don't have any idea why you connected these two things together as they cannot be compared.

Basically both scenarios (using orb on CD and delaying for PC) have a 3 minute cycle where frozen orb, Prismatic Crystal, and IV line up. So both scenarios have the same minute 0 combination which repeats every 3 min with all 3 CDs lining up.

In the case of using everything on CD, at minute 1 you get FO, minute 1.5 you get PC, and minute 2 you get FO again. In the case of delaying you get a FO with PC at minute 1.5. Comparing the two together you get an extra FO when using it on CD but when you delay you get the FO with crystal, which is an increase because the FoF procs you get from frozen orb are being spammed into the PC which ideally would be cleaving on the boss as well.

I cannot verify for sure ATM but frozen orb ticks can hit the crystal and be split onto targets in PC, correct? I would assume so because it is a spell of the mage but not 100% sure tbh. If it does cleave off PC then the one FO would do 210% of a normal frozen orb and even ignoring procs it would be worth it to delay FO for PC because ignoring the minute 0 where all cds line up the 2 frozen orbs when using on cd would do 200% of a normal FO. Obviously its more complicated than just the FO damage because you need to account for the procs generated from each scenario because it would be quite different and where the procs are spent would also be different because of PC.

On that note, the sim done where the damage of delaying vs. not delaying was using the mage tier 17 profile iirc and I was curious if the sim done was using frost bomb, because if it was it would favour delaying for PC because FB does better cleve damage with the increased procs into PC where ice nova would be unchanged whether you delay FO or not. Not sure how much impact the change of talent from FB to IN would make but it would probably be worth simming imo.

Yeah so I'm really tired right now and my explanation or logic may not be air tight but I hope you understand what I was trying to explain.

[Deleted]

Idk if I'm really tired and misunderstanding what you are saying, but because you delay it 50% does not make it 50% less effective. Going by your math if you were to delay frozen orb 100% to 2 min then the orbs would be 0% as effective as the previous scenario, which is obviously false. The orbs would be 50% as effective because 1 min (original cd) / 2 min (delayed 100% cd). In the scenario which they were talking about delaying for PC would make strictly the total frozen orb damage 66.6% of what it would be to use on CD. (100% cd/ 150% cd)

Edit: Going by the same logic if you delay your FB 200% more than its base CD, its -100% as "efficient" as using on CD. Stop attacking you're healing the boss!!1one. Some Blugatti math going on right now.

In the next line you compare the damage bonus of PC to the percentage of damage frozen orb when delaying compared to using on CD. I don't have any idea why you connected these two things together as they cannot be compared.

Basically both scenarios (using orb on CD and delaying for PC) have a 3 minute cycle where frozen orb, Prismatic Crystal, and IV line up. So both scenarios have the same minute 0 combination which repeats every 3 min with all 3 CDs lining up.

In the case of using everything on CD, at minute 1 you get FO, minute 1.5 you get PC, and minute 2 you get FO again. In the case of delaying you get a FO with PC at minute 1.5. Comparing the two together you get an extra FO when using it on CD but when you delay you get the FO with crystal, which is an increase because the FoF procs you get from frozen orb are being spammed into the PC which ideally would be cleaving on the boss as well.

I cannot verify for sure ATM but frozen orb ticks can hit the crystal and be split onto targets in PC, correct? I would assume so because it is a spell of the mage but not 100% sure tbh. If it does cleave off PC then the one FO would do 210% of a normal frozen orb and even ignoring procs it would be worth it to delay FO for PC because ignoring the minute 0 where all cds line up the 2 frozen orbs when using on cd would do 200% of a normal FO. Obviously its more complicated than just the FO damage because you need to account for the procs generated from each scenario because it would be quite different and where the procs are spent would also be different because of PC.

On that note, the sim done where the damage of delaying vs. not delaying was using the mage tier 17 profile iirc and I was curious if the sim done was using frost bomb, because if it was it would favour delaying for PC because FB does better cleve damage with the increased procs into PC where ice nova would be unchanged whether you delay FO or not. Not sure how much impact the change of talent from FB to IN would make but it would probably be worth simming imo.

Yeah so I'm really tired right now and my explanation or logic may not be air tight but I hope you understand what I was trying to explain.

Yea, you're right, it's not 50% less effective in that way, but it's the easiest way to word it.

PC makes orb 110% stronger AT LEAST, which means that even if you would delay it by 100% it'd already be worth it. But we only need to delay it 30 seconds (so 50%).

Even if you miss out on one orb by delaying it, it's worth it. Assuming the boss doesn't die before you get to combine it with PC ofcource.

[Deleted]

Pretty simple to understand what he said and I like the wording. While technically not completely correct it will lead anyone further pursuing it to the technical correct answer.

[Crackleslap]

Meanwhile I don't use PC because I absolutely freaking despise it!

[Zavri]

Meanwhile I don't use PC because I absolutely freaking despise it!

Sure it isn't the most fun spell in the world but if you do more dps with it, why wouldn't you use it?

[Frost1129]

It's the same number of effective uses, except PC+FO is 10% amping part of FO's aoe damage, and giving you FoF using PC. This is not hard to understand >.>.

I did the on CD vs. FO+PC sims with both IN and Fbomb, same results.

[Abujan]

I don't think there is a clearcut answer for everyone.

If you take into consideration you can have the 50 sec icd pvp trinket, how much can that influence having your second FO line up with that?

You can bank at least 1 BF and IL proc going into your second crystal if you don't have orb; and if you're using IN you have 2 gcds on the second crystal taken up by IN. Your BF and ice novas can still proc extra ice lances. The actual damage of frozen orb on single target isn't that high so the +110% damage from the crystal + the orb itself is not a big deal.