1. #1

    BrM's on Butcher /flex

    Tried Heroic Butcher last night and we definitely didn't have the dps/heals to down him, even with perfect execution. I will say though, I took WAYYY less damage than both other tanks, and was much smoother. EB was great for avoiding the cleave, and mastery stacking felt amazing for tenderizer stacks.

    It was pretty ironic watching my DK co-tank get smashed in to oblivion while I still had CD's unused.

    We eventually tried a 3-tank strat where we rotated every 1 tenderizer stack and 1 tank always moved away. That seemed to lighten the damage dramatically.

    One final note though, we did this with around 14-15 people and 4 healers so I'm not really sure that was optimal. When we did normal mode with 11 afterward, we eventually had our top healer go to bed during Tectus, and surprisingly the damage with only 10, despite losing a good healer, seemed MUCH lower. It was very strange, and we may play around with the group numbers as a result.

  2. #2
    We did 'normal' Butcher last night, our warrior tank had to ask not to be bubbled as much, as he cant parry an absorb, which kills his rage generation so he had issues keeping up active mitigation things. I said I would happily take all the bubbles in the world, On our kill attempt:

    Damage Taken -
    Warrior Tank: 6.2mil
    Brewmaster Tank: 4.3mil

    He actually died twice (once at like 25% and once at like 3%)

  3. #3
    Deleted
    For us our brewmaster (alt) got changed to a warrior (off spec) for HC butcher. Dunno probably shit playing or something.

  4. #4
    This is our best attempt on heroic butcher last night:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...taken&fight=10

    He was at 15%. You can see how rapidly the fights jump up in difficulty. You took 4.3 million damage and I took ~12.1 million.

    For the example above I think if you're changing your BrM to an offspec warrior your BrM probably don't know what he's doing and your warrior has probably tanked quite a bit. That's the only thing I think would be the case. BrM seem very very well suited for this fight.

    Across our best attempts I averaged a purifying brew every 4.8 seconds. My best was 77 PBs in 5:15. Which was this attempt
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...taken&fight=14

    You can see I mitigated/staggered more damage than I took by a considerable margin. I don't think any other tank is going to manage that.

  5. #5
    The reason you took so much damage is from the bosses ability called The Cleaver. This attack hits the current tank but it can be BLOCKED to avoid it. I am a guardian druid and my co-tank is a monk. Right before the fight the monk tank wispered me saying "we are about to get wrecked. we can't blocked The Cleaver because we dont have shields" and boy was he right. We both ran out of cds after about a minute into the fight and we are both almost at 640 ilvl. Just one of those fights where classes really start to show and how this is a small example of how Mythic strats will be formed. We also wiped at 26% with 27 ppl in the raid. A few ppl were undergeared for heroic so we should see improvement soon.

  6. #6
    Nah the cleaver only did ~400k to me total over the course of 5 minutes. It looks like it can be dodged. I dodged 45.5% of the Cleavers.

    Most of the damage is from Heavy Handed. Which is a real b****.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    I take so much damage in this fight as a DK that is not even funny And on most fights I take like 5% more than other tanks with about same gear (data via recount), when it used to be the other way around pre 6.0.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by matugm View Post
    I take so much damage in this fight as a DK that is not even funny And on most fights I take like 5% more than other tanks with about same gear (data via recount), when it used to be the other way around pre 6.0.
    5% is probably not a huge deal especially if you are at any point tanking more than your co-tank. Say you pull, and during the rotation the boss dies with you tanking last. That's probably more than a 5% difference there. Also it's good to compare your HPS and their HPS with their DTPS and your DTPS to get a real picture of the differences before you start worrying about things!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawkfist View Post
    We did 'normal' Butcher last night, our warrior tank had to ask not to be bubbled as much, as he cant parry an absorb, which kills his rage generation so he had issues keeping up active mitigation things.
    I haven't played a Prot Warrior yet on live but I'm pretty sure that issue was fixed many years ago and absorbs do not prevent rage gain anymore, your tank's information is very out of date.
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  10. #10
    High Overlord R0ninX3ph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I haven't played a Prot Warrior yet on live but I'm pretty sure that issue was fixed many years ago and absorbs do not prevent rage gain anymore, your tank's information is very out of date.
    Similarly, I am 90% sure that if the damage is being absorbed by whatever absorb mechanic is on him, he didn't parry in the first place. Absobs != avoidance.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramad View Post
    You can see how rapidly the fights jump up in difficulty. You took 4.3 million damage and I took ~12.1 million.
    The amount of damage you take also scales with the number of players in the raid. I did butcher 30man normal last night and in the 3.15mins I took 6.3mill damage, in the first 3.15mins of your heroic attempt you took 7.7mill.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shifterstorm View Post
    The reason you took so much damage is from the bosses ability called The Cleaver. This attack hits the current tank but it can be BLOCKED to avoid it.
    It also can be DODGED, so you have to stack some EB and push it right before cleaver, and you'll be fine.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Chuupag's Avatar
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    My warrior offtank was getting wrecked while I was barely taking more damage than the melee soakers. Feels good to see that blowhard handed his ass.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I haven't played a Prot Warrior yet on live but I'm pretty sure that issue was fixed many years ago and absorbs do not prevent rage gain anymore, your tank's information is very out of date.
    Yep, avoidance happens before absorbs. So you only absorb what you didnt avoid. Think of absorbs as bonus health. You dont lose health if you didnt get hit right?
    Pretty sure thats been the way since wrath.

  15. #15
    Butcher really is the perfect fight for BrM's mitigation system. Damage is heavy, but consistent rather than bursty so it favors AM that you can hit frequently rather than the "on/off" style some other tanks have, all damage is physical, and nearly all of it can be dodged/parried.

    Tanked the instance twice yesterday (on my Paladin and Monk). For sure felt the difference on that one. But then, Paladin went better on Tectus, for example. All in all, I think those two, at least, are fairly well balanced overall. No personal experience with the other tanks, though. I'm kinda surprised to hear people saying Warriors aren't doing well. They were pretty well slated as the favorite at the end of beta by most, and they haven't really been nerfed since release. Maybe your warriors weren't playing optimally?

    Will have a better picture of balance after we clear Heroic tonight... going to try to run the first couple bosses of Heroic with split main/alt groups again, so I'll have some context again.

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