[Healer]With the new raid, how do you feel healer mana holds up, specificially rdruid

[Tiberria]

Germination is really the only reasonable L100 talent option. Even if you aren't double Rejuving targets often, it still buffs your total Rejuv throughput by 20% through the 3 second extension. With Rejuv accounting for 20%-35% of most Druids' typical total healing, it's a 4%-7% throughput increase.

Rampant Growth isn't really viable (except maybe on a fight with unlimited mana like Brackenspore), because it is way too mana intensive of a playstyle and because it absolutely requires Soul of the Forest to be usable (meaning giving up another HPM increasing talent in Incarnation). Moment of Clarity is way too cumbersome to use. For one thing, unless you are already casting a Regrowth when it procs, you won't get more than 2 Regrowths off during each proc. For another, you often don't want to (or can't) hard cast two Rejuvs in a row at the drop of a hat. If it procs when there are no appropriate targets to heal or when you have to move, or during Tranq, an MoC proc actually becomes a downgrade over a baseline OoC proc which you can sit on for up to 15 seconds to pick an appropriate place to cast Regrowth. That isn't likely worth taking a 20% nerf to Rejuv to take.

[stormgust]

Germination is really the only reasonable L100 talent option.

Yeah, but we had that figured out during beta. RaGr breaks apart at several points (PvP vs. PvE balance, T60/T100 balance, mana cost, HoT consumption, etc) and MoC is just as you described.

Imo they should've scrapped MoC and RaGr during beta, because right now we're stuck with but one suitable talent choice at T100 (and if the "no mechanic changes" statement holds true, it'll be that way till 7.0)

[nightfalls]

Imo they should've scrapped MoC and RaGr during beta, because right now we're stuck with but one suitable talent choice at T100 (and if the "no mechanic changes" statement holds true, it'll be that way till 7.0)

It's really disappointing, because I feel MoC is actually the hardest (in a sense) talent to maximize - you have to be a lot more reactive with it and pay attention to your surroundings. It should, in that sense, give the best reward (compared to Germination and RG which I view as ridiculously easy to use), but it does the opposite right now.

Agreed that it really needs to be scrapped and replaced. Ideally I'd like to see it be a more micromanagement-oriented talent that is a little more active (and less RNG) while also being a little more rewarding than Germination is.

[ponies]

Nobody even uses genesis, show me logs that show MoC being any good, its too random, unreliable, forced onto you to stop whatever you're doing to use it and bad when there is movement to be any good.

Genesis is amazing, and Blizzard wanted druids to use it more from my understanding.
But with mana issues being a problem as it is I don't have the resources to use on it

[Deleted]

Hey guys this is my first post here. I play heal classes since vanilla. Imo druid manaregen is very hard to manage at the moment especially with the candle nerf right now. I can't understand why every other heal class has an own mana filler. I saw in many logs now that druid is very behind with mana gain and I think without the candle it was/is much harder (I have one). The nerf is okay for me cause of the stat weight from other trinkets but blizzard has to improve druids mana gain maybe with our old innervate - of course not that strong but I miss a 'oh sh*t I need mana' button. It's a hard situation to go in fight with that - I have to manage my 160k flat mana - in my mind (yes I know spirit/pot) but you all know what's the point. When this is the new heal philosophy then pls fix other classes to this just one mana spot too? The problem is that we maybe push out to much hps then, we're in a good throughoutput atm. Blizzard has to scale something here... sorry for my bad English :S

[unlightable]

Is there any data on mythic resto druids? How's mana there?

[Hildrande]

Two mythic logs with resto druids on warcraftlogs atm. Cheers for treants at Twins mythic!. When he can get away with that at this stage it makes me believe any talent is going to work in any fight as long as you play well enough in terms of button pressing. In a world with 30-40% overhealing on most spells treants might not perform horribly bad.

[unlightable]

Two mythic logs with resto druids on warcraftlogs atm. Cheers for treants at Twins mythic!. When he can get away with that at this stage it makes me believe any talent is going to work in any fight as long as you play well enough in terms of button pressing. In a world with 30-40% overhealing on most spells treants might not perform horribly bad.

He ran on fumes for last 20-30% of the fight (used candle twice in a 7m fight, could have done it 2 more times...), while every other healer haven't dipped below 30%.
Only holy priest was struggling a little, but he is 12 ilvls lower and almost outhealed the druid.
Doesn't look all rainbow'y for us

And funny enogh, disc priest still dominated. So much for absorbs being not that dominant (:

[Hildrande]

Germination is really the only reasonable L100 talent option. Even if you aren't double Rejuving targets often, it still buffs your total Rejuv throughput by 20% through the 3 second extension. With Rejuv accounting for 20%-35% of most Druids' typical total healing, it's a 4%-7% throughput increase.

It would be interesting to see the average overhealing on those last 3 seconds, if that had been possible to extract from logs. Not uncommonly I see logs with more overhealing on rejuv than on WG.

I find the rejuv talents interesting for their synergies, if you can coordinate with the other healers to allow you to GCD-cap rejuvs while Incarnation and NV up and not have most of it overheal, that's alot of healing with great HPM.

[Deleted]

The reason +3 seconds is good is because there are times when you want to blanket as many people as possible with HoTs, and you can cover more people when the duration is longer. Being able to cast 2x Rejuv is also nice, especially during longer movement phases such as Twin Ogrons fire. It also makes your pre-HoT much stronger, which is useful when you know someone is about to need healing, like whoever soaks the shield on Ko'ragh, so that you can do that when you have a moment free. Without Germination, HoTs might not be enough healing and you'll have to add more at a time when it might not be convenient. The value of HoTs, and especially an extra Rejuv, is not just in the mathematical throughput but in the flexibility of being able to heal ahead of time. It makes you much less likely to fall behind and get put under pressure.

[baskev]

okay.....genesis fans

I see a couple of weird things in you comments. yes its a great talent not meaning its not BUT.
lets recap what some of you say

So far on normal and hc. you can with a group of good healers top some players. ( except tanks germination on tanks is awsome). Without double rejuvantions.
yes you can blanket a raid with rejuvanations but only a dumbass does that. that cost way to much mana in the first place. and its just not needed 2 rush heal most players like that. if it is then their standing in some shit they shouldnt be standing in.

As far as genisis goes. its great for spot healing ( combine with germination). but again if you do it on more players and you rejuv them you mana is gone in no time with the current gear level.

And for the people who are blind of trolls. they guy askes how mana is going in raids. so you also need 2 tell the bad stuff about the good talents :P

and if you look at all the top resto druids on the top healing charts most normal and hc raids wildf growth, tranq and rejuv are the main spells. only on the harder bossses and mytic it seems to get more use.
wich is normal your rejuvantion dodnt over heal.

and 1 last thing i also read about the 3 seconds longer rejuvs, on paper it heals more if people dodnt get topt. but be honest how many times do people get low on normal or hc and stay low for long enough that rejuv even uses those last 3 seconds.....news flash.. they dodnt.

OoC bad? yes its procs are random. but plenty. and great for spothealing. when we hit the level that our hots can think for about 70 80% of their full duration then those hots work like a charm. funny thing is some of the logs you guys link have regrowth over germ :P

but AGAIN this is my opion. you have yours i have mine

[Deleted]

My mana feels alright, except for really long fights like Imperator. I see WG appearing fairly prominently in druid logs however I find it's really risky considering its enourmous mana cost. Unless the whole raid is properly low, as it had a tendancy to randomly target 99% health people and overheal like a beast. I also tried out DoC today but to be honest, it just felt like a nice filler to use rather than standing there doing nothing. In terms of healing when it's useful and effective, I find Heart / NV to still be pretty beast for lining up with Incarnation in heavy damage periods.

[EarthBoundRose]

The only fights I've ran into Mana issues so far have been Heroic Butcher and Normal Twins (I have no idea why). I can usually make it through Ko'Ragh without any issues and on Imperator as long as I'm in "Imperator Healer Mode" I can make it to first intermission at 80% mana, second intermission with 30% and start final phase with around 10%.

Are there any specific fights you're having trouble with mana-wise?

[Hildrande]

I see WG appearing fairly prominently in druid logs however I find it's really risky considering its enourmous mana cost.... In terms of healing when it's useful and effective, I find Heart / NV to still be pretty beast for lining up with Incarnation in heavy damage periods.

Last thing first: If you have the rejuv talents NV can become really strong. I don't, and I struggle getting much out of it.

WG in its basic form heals and costs the same as four 15-second rejuvs, glyphed it heals and costs the same as four 18-sec rejuvs. Its advantage is that it ticks in faster than rejuvs, the disadvantage is that it's a not so smart heal and might just as well hit people that are 1 HP from max as those about to die. So I'm monitoring my WG overheal values, and so far my WGs overhealing is not any higher than what I, and the rejuvspammers in my guild, get on the rejuvs. Maybe the shorter duration on WG offsets the not so smartness, overhealingwise.

Also: The basic Rejuvenation and WG are not amazing, HPM-wise. When mana is a bottleneck using the up-scaled versions as much as possible becomes important, with NV/Inc or SotF. I never cast WG without SotF.

[Cirque]

Is there any data on mythic resto druids? How's mana there?

Hello, back from first Mythic boss, we will do more the coming days. We didn't have much time today as we killed both other difficulties as well.

Anyway the first boss is a pushover as expected and actually an excellent druid fight, as 1) it is short, so you basically don't oom even if you spam your spells like there's no tomorrow, and even after the Candle nerfs, and 2) druids are simply the best healer on the move, and there's a lot of moving going on. In general, I repeat, rdruids are probably the best healer of them all, it's just the mana.

We need gear, honestly - that is what I have noticed. With every upgrade I get, with every extra intellect and especially spirit I get shit gets so much better. And when we get that I wouldn't be too amazed if we'd even get nerfed a bit. It IS looking up, but we're in the warlock boat: we will suffer. Then we get gear, then we probably get nerfed.