Chainheal Crits

[Pur1tas]

Hello fellow shamans,

I was asking myself the question which hit of Chainheal can trigger the mana regain as I am not sure if Mutlistrike or Crit are the stronger stat for a group healer during raids. As far as I am concerned Crit would obviously be a better stat as the mana reg we gain from obtaining a crit.

The question now is can every hit of Chainheal trigger the mana reg or does only the first target we hit trigger our mana payback.

As well I would like to ask if every hit has the chance to trigger a multistrike or only the first one.

Last but not least and not concerning this topic I wanted to ask if anyone has a value for converting versatility points into % (I know its obviously a horrible stat but I'd like to know)

[rheeah]

130 Versatility = +1% damage/healing dealt (and -0.5% damage taken)

In practice, it's not a "terrible stat" at all, but about as good for healing throughput as Crit or Multistrike.

[Deleted]

As far as i know every hit of chainheal can trigger resurgence. Every hit can crit and multistrike (once or twice) seperately.
130 versatility points are 1% dmg/heal and 0,5% dmg reduction.

The question which of the two stats is better isn't easily answered. Throughput wise they are exactly the same on a base level. Crit does give some mana back via resurgence. However there are two factors which make multistrike a little bit better:
-The overheal is lower. If you have a higher chance of getting a lower heal than in average you overheal less than with more big hits.
-You have less base multistrike. The lower one stat is compared to the other, the better the lower one becomes in comparison. you have base crit chance but no base multristrike chance, increasing the throughput of multistrike slightly compared to crit until you have a percentage ratio of about 1,66:1 multristrike to crit ( for example at 16,66% multistrike and 10% crit on your char they again give the same throughput)

The more of your heal comes from single target healspells and ch the better is crit, the more you heal from totems and hr the better is multistrike.
Basically multistrike is better but as soon as you have some more rating in multistrike ( about 300-400 or so rating more than crit rating ), crit pulls ahead again.

[Pur1tas]

Okay thanks first of all.

I feel like multistrike is a lot "cheaper" to obtain and if you do not have any mana issues it will be the better stat but if you have mana issues crit will do more for you even though it is more "expensive" as you need more crit points to obtain 1% of crit than you need to obtain 1% mutlistrike.

So every hit of Chainheal could grant back mana if it crits. That is good to know thank you Feel like I should be going for crit then in the start of the addon as for now I feel like we still have some issues with mana during longer fights. But we will see as I expect group healing to be more mana efficent in comparisson to Tank healing where I needed a lot of HS spamming especially in CM

[Holofernes]

nah if you heal in raids, i strongly recommend to go mastery / haste / what ever. I favor multistrike slightly over crit /versatiliy, both i tend to see as least important stats.

Focusing on crit with current gear is not very clever. 15 % raidbuffed, with all crit parts and crazy stacking this will jump to like 16 or 17%, wont make any noticable difference. Crit does shine at tankhealing (also here its beaten by multistrike slightly too), but for mana purpose critstacking is next to nothing.
Better get your spirit parts and your regen trinkets, if you have mana issues.

Chainheal can proc on any of the jump, but only once per cast, while writing this, i tested in game to verify my knowledge, and its true.
So 5 critical hits of of a chainheal wont proc 5 * resurgance, it procs only once.

and its 451 mana gained for a chainheal that has any crit on its jumps.

For comparison: a chainheal costs 8960 mana, so thats 5 % mana cost reduction.

So any healing shaman that sockets and enchants crit is kind of reading the wrong guides, and has a wrong understanding of this class.

[Deleted]

Nobody said anything about crit being the best stat. At least for my post i only compared crit and multistrike.
Throughput wise mastery is better than crit and multistrike if the target is below 60% health which is rather often the case for me. Haste is slightly worse for singletarget spells but vastly better for totems hr and riptide. In a raid situation it will be superior but in e.g. a cm it will be slightly better than crit and multistrike at best. It also strongly depends on talents chosen.
However all that said, i found no single stat to be so universally better than the others that i find it a strech to say somebody doesn't understand his class if he takes another stat.
Besides, every guide i read had different stat weights attached to it, so i had to do my own spread sheet and even that got me only so far to have stat weights for every spell seperately, not including differences talents make and so on. If you have a really good guide, maybe even with some math behind it, i would appreciate it if you could share it.

[Wild]

Math is all good and what not, but you must also consider your playing style. What I read here is kinda "underestimating the crit"!

In my personal opinion, I love some crit and I also do enchant crit. This is especially true when it Comes to Tank healing. So if your just Group healing in raid this might not be interesting for you. However I also do heroics, where the tank-healing is extremely important. Once a Tank is at 10-20%HP, getting him up without a crit is a b!tch - while the Group is taking dmg at the same time. If you crit, usually one HS is enough to get him "safe", 2 crits and he is at 100%.

So I wouldnt underestimate crit that much. However, due to the NON-reforging possibility, we can't Change them that much anyway.

[Pur1tas]

Nobody said anything about crit being the best stat. At least for my post i only compared crit and multistrike.
Throughput wise mastery is better than crit and multistrike if the target is below 60% health which is rather often the case for me. Haste is slightly worse for singletarget spells but vastly better for totems hr and riptide. In a raid situation it will be superior but in e.g. a cm it will be slightly better than crit and multistrike at best. It also strongly depends on talents chosen.
However all that said, i found no single stat to be so universally better than the others that i find it a strech to say somebody doesn't understand his class if he takes another stat.
Besides, every guide i read had different stat weights attached to it, so i had to do my own spread sheet and even that got me only so far to have stat weights for every spell seperately, not including differences talents make and so on. If you have a really good guide, maybe even with some math behind it, i would appreciate it if you could share it.

Would you mind sharing your Spreadsheet with me?


This post was not about Crit or multistrike being the best stat whatsoever as I plan on manly stacking Mastery (like enchants and sockets) while I do have a crit enchant on my necklace atm for ..... reasons .

I will most likely take any Item with Mastery on it anyways and this is more about the second secondary stat. While I do plan on getting Spirit on at least 4 slots I do not think it will be worth getting it on all 6 slots (2 rings, 2 trinkets, necklace and back) as I feel like I would be missing out on possible "better" stats.

So as far as I am concerned I am going to play with riptide glyph, one of the two spiritwalker glyphs and chaining in order to maximise chain heal output and increase my mobility (not sure which spiritwalker glyph to take atm and I might just change between fights)

For talents I plan on going for:
Astral Shift
Windwalk Totem
Totemic Persistance EDIT: Totemic presistance only with Cloudburst, otherwise Call of Elements
Ancestral Swiftness or Elemental Mastery (will see how how my haste is going out and will be highly fight dependet tending towards Elemental Mastery atm)
Rushing streams for spread out fights and Conductivity for stacked up fights like butcher or Brackenspore
Primal Elementalist
High tide

These talent and glyph choices are based around me not caring about tank healing in raids for now as our Disc and Pala will take care of that.

I am thinking of maybe going for Cloudburst as it seems very strong with 2 shamans or even a shaman and a druid for group healing but this will show during raiding I guess. From what I read in the forums it seems as it is undertuned at the moment though.

So with this talent and glyph choices for the spread out fights I really think that Mastery>Crit>Multistrike>Haste>Versatility will be the way to go for but that said I am not sure weather the low amount of haste I am going to have will pay of. For stacked fights I feel like Haste and Crit will switch up with multistrike still being 3rd in priority.

This said I do not plan on getting a hole bunch of gear except from spirit items during the first few IDs (especially as our hunters are going to punch me if I take crit gear) and therefore will take any upgrade I can get. (especially as the secondary stats do not seem to be apart by a whole bunch.

[Holofernes]

the problem with "critting the tank to be able to top him off quickly and than move to other targets" is that multistrike would do the same job, but better. Crit for shaman was nerfed mainly by the fact that ancestral awakening doesnt exist anymore.

[Deleted]

Would you mind sharing your Spreadsheet with me?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Please keep in mind that it doesn't include any talents which may change the stat weights and only gives them spell for spell. If you find any errors please tell me so i can correct them.

What it basically boils down to is this (including the mana balance):

For HW/HS/CH/Riptide(Direct): Int>>Mastery(target 65% health or lower)>Crit=Multistrike>Mastery(target 72% health)=Versatility>Haste>Mastery(target 76% health or higher)
For HR/HSt/HT/Riptide(Hot): Int>>Mastery(target 15% health or lower)=Haste>Mastery(target 65%)>Crit=Multistrike>Mastery(target 72% health)=Versatility

The more you heal single target the worse is haste. For pure single target healspam it is the worst stat. For Hots and hot like heals (HR,totems) it is however better than any other secondary stat(barring mastery at very, very low targets).
Crit and Multistrike strongly depend on how much you have of each stat. Basically you need a little higher rating in multistrike than in crit.

Edit: I deactivated editing online so you need to download the spreadsheet to input your shaman's data
Edit2: RestoShamanStats got updated a few days ago, which i unfortunately just found out. This will give you much better stat weights than my spreadsheet, as it takes much more into account.

[Deleted]

Math is all good and what not, but you must also consider your playing style. What I read here is kinda "underestimating the crit"!

Once a Tank is at 10-20%HP, getting him up without a crit is a b!tch - while the Group is taking dmg at the same time. If you crit, usually one HS is enough to get him "safe", 2 crits and he is at 100%.

So I wouldnt underestimate crit that much. However, due to the NON-reforging possibility, we can't Change them that much anyway.

You can still crit with mastery build and unleash life + surge for 120-180k depending on tank's health, if you have problems in CM spec into Unleashed Fury. In raids leave the tank healing to your paladin.