Whats the best way to tell a trial they failed?

[Snixs]

Hey there MMO-champ!


We have for a few years been a tight raiding team in my guild, and since mythic changed how raiding works, we had to expand.
Now we're filled up with trials, and some just have to go.

I know being a leading is about inspiring others, show them how they can become better and tell them when they perform well, and also when something needs to be improved.

I try doing this, but as of now i would like some general advise on how to tell trials they failed our trail period. So if any of you out there got any tips, they would be GREATLY appreciated!

Peace out!

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Politely saying that you do not think they are fit for your team.

[Amerissis]

"<insert name>, you failed your trial. You can stay as a social or try your luck elsewhere. Whatever you decide, good luck!".

[Deleted]

Few questions first.

Are they decent or bad?
Do you have enough backups?
How are their attitudes?

[BenBos]

It is one of those little aspects I don't like in WoW: Elitism: it is terrible actually.

The very best times I had in WoW was when playing with real friends and trying to do heroic dungeons while whiping constantly as noobs.

In 2006 you had to fill in 10 page documents to be allowed in certain guilds, I bet you a 1000 to 1 we had far more fun with our noob group than these guys dressed in epics and Legendaries standing bored against the walls of Stormwind ...

I know it is not helping much, but as a Guild leader take EVERYONE with you (just set a limit to their gear score) in Flex raiding.

WoW is a game you know you need to have fun with, not some academic title.

After a few weeks, these guys will be so pleased they can join your Flex raiding group and WILL become better. If not they wll realise this part of the game is not for them and they will still support you in mats etc...

[Muadiib]

Give them constructive criticism, don't patronise them as that won't help anyone, be honest but not brutal. Finish with a positive point.

[ComputerNerd]

Constructive feedback.
Why they failed a trial, being as specific as possible.
Simply telling someone they failed isn't going to achieve anything towards making them a better player for the next guild they apply to.

There is lots of criticism of "bads" and "noobs", but if nobody helps them to understand what they are doing wrong, how will they ever improve.
Often because those doing the criticising do not want to understand, for it paints a less positive view of their part in the community.

They say I gotta learn, but nobody's here to teach me
If they can't understand it, how can they reach me

[Amerissis]

It is one of those little aspects I don't like in WoW.

The very best times I had in WoW was when playing with real friends and trying to do heroic dungeons while whiping constantly as noobs.

In 2006 you had to fill in 10 page documents to be allowed in certain guilds, I bet you a 1000 to 1 we had far more fun with our noob group than these guys dressed in epics and Legendaries standing bired against the walls of Stormwind ...

I know it is not helping much, but as a Guild leader take EVERYONE with you in Flex raiding.

WoW is a game you know you need to have fun with, not some academic title.

What a dumb piece of advice. Some people like raiding mythic, they have fun raiding mythic. They aren't going to run Flex just to please every scrub that can't perform in mythic. There are other guilds for that, guilds like yours. You bang your head against a wall in flex because the DPS stands in the fire for the 1000th time, but 'it's just a game', they progress through mythic at a steady pace, by only recruiting people who can actually tell the difference between fire and healing rain.

[Deleted]

To copy a person above you could and depending on what they failed you could possibly ad something.

"<insert name>, you failed your trial. You can stay as a social or try your luck elsewhere. You are free to apply again for the raiding team should you decide to stay as a social. Whatever you decide, good luck!"

- - - Updated - - -

Constructive feedback.
Why they failed a trial, being as specific as possible.
Simply telling someone they failed isn't going to achieve anything towards making them a better player for the next guild they apply to.

Sometimes a person is so bad you simply can't tell them why they failed without coming over as a jackass. Constructive feedback is only an option when you feel that the person your talking to would and could actually use it.

[Airlick]

Just be firm and honest about your decision, and depending on your guild's situation, you could propose them to stay as socials or back-ups and try to improve if they are willing.

[Deleted]

It is one of those little aspects I don't like in WoW: Elitism: it is terrible actually.

The very best times I had in WoW was when playing with real friends and trying to do heroic dungeons while whiping constantly as noobs.

In 2006 you had to fill in 10 page documents to be allowed in certain guilds, I bet you a 1000 to 1 we had far more fun with our noob group than these guys dressed in epics and Legendaries standing bored against the walls of Stormwind ...

I know it is not helping much, but as a Guild leader take EVERYONE with you (just set a limit to their gear score) in Flex raiding.

WoW is a game you know you need to have fun with, not some academic title.

After a few weeks, these guys will be so pleased they can join your Flex raiding group and WILL become better. If not they wll realise this part of the game is not for them and they will still support you in mats etc...

If you think spending 10m of your time to fill in a form to give 19-24 other people an idea of who you are and what you are capable off then I don't see why a guild would bother with inviting you.

I agree that some guilds go over the top with practically job interviews over VoiceIP...but a simple form is pretty normal.

[Gaidax]

Simply inform the guy that at this point you do not see him fitting in the raid group, thus you release him of all the responsibilities of a raider member and allow him a choice of staying with lower rank that grants him access to Normal(Flex) unofficial raids with loot rights reserved to the raiders first. If he is interested, cool, if not he may leave the guild at any point without any issues.

[Deleted]

take your best player of the same class as the person who has failed, and the person who has failed to Gurabashi Arena in STV.
Tell them they have one chance to extend there trial. They have to kill the other player in unarmed combat. Both players get naked and start fighting! (bonus points for being on coms and having this tune played)
if by some miracle they win, then extend their trial a week. if they don't, then boot them!


or you could just say

"sorry, your just not the right fit for the raid team"

[Deleted]

Politely saying that you do not think they are fit for your team.

That is the WORST thing you can do to them. It gives NO feedback and is insulting (at least for the people smart enough to realize it is honeytalk).


Much better is to say 'You are not good enough to raid with us. You are first on damage taken (three links to logs), weak on damage/healing done (three links to logs where lack of damage/healing is a problem). You interrupt and dispel, that is good, but not enough. Feel free to apply again when you get better, or you can stay here as a social.'

or

'You are not good enough to raid with us. Game performance is good, but you are emoraging about loot and your dirty jokes are just terrible.'

[nonameelf]

Follow in the footsteps of Astalor:

Kaelynara,

It is with some regret that I must inform you that I am relieving you of your duties as my apprentice. I blame myself for being mistaken of your potential; I hope you can understand that even the most talented of mages sometimes make mistakes. At least now you can put your ineptitude behind you and pursue a reasonable goal. Perhaps basket weaving may prove more suitable for your...talents.

Unfortunately I do not associate myself with any basket weavers specifically and am too busy to write you a recommendation. Please return to Azeroth at your soonest convenience.

-Astalor

http://www.wowhead.com/item=110667

[Draoran]

How exactly do you know they failed? Did you discuss and set up KPIs at hire time?

If not, you have absolutely no right to judge. Any "you fail" coming from you would be just a biased, arbitrary nonsense.

[BenBos]

What a dumb piece of advice. Some people like raiding mythic, they have fun raiding mythic. They aren't going to run Flex just to please every scrub that can't perform in mythic. There are other guilds for that, guilds like yours. You bang your head against a wall in flex because the DPS stands in the fire for the 1000th time, but 'it's just a game', they progress through mythic at a steady pace, by only recruiting people who can actually tell the difference between fire and healing rain.

Let me quote you: "dumb - scrub - "

Nice attitude of showing off a mentality.

I said when he would Raid in Flex he should bring anyone along that is willing and trying his/her best.

After a certain time people will realise the Mythic part of the game is not really for them.

It is like Cruyff said 40 years ago: once you go back to the dress room everyone knows who were the better players of the soccer team, yourself included.

It is much better to let players confront themselves with their mistakes or short comings.

Much simpler and you'll still be friends you can rely on in other parts of Guild play.

If anything ... more players leave WoW for being treated as "scrub" than any other element in this game apart from being burnt out.

[Deleted]

How exactly do you know they failed? Did you discuss and set up KPIs at hire time?

If not, you have absolutely no right to judge. Any "you fail" coming from you would be just a biased, arbitrary nonsense.

This the biggest bullshit I've ever seen...I've joined plenty of raiding guilds where as a trial I was just told to listen to the raidleader and try to improve my gear if I was behind. I usually joined raiding guilds that were geared higher then me (miles ahead) and often I just told them that I'd like for them to judge me on me dealing with the raid team and mechanics rather then following a dps chart where I knew I'd be bottom.

[Deleted]

I don't see the problem in being honest, as long as you phrase it in a helpful manner. "Sorry, your dps is just not high enough for your gear. I recommend checking out Icy Veins and SimC to see how you can perform better, you should really be performing 2K dps more." This will help the person for the next guild they try out for, instead of leaving them were they started: A below average player without a way to progress.

[Gaidax]

It is one of those little aspects I don't like in WoW: Elitism: it is terrible actually.

The very best times I had in WoW was when playing with real friends and trying to do heroic dungeons while whiping constantly as noobs.

In 2006 you had to fill in 10 page documents to be allowed in certain guilds, I bet you a 1000 to 1 we had far more fun with our noob group than these guys dressed in epics and Legendaries standing bored against the walls of Stormwind ...

I know it is not helping much, but as a Guild leader take EVERYONE with you (just set a limit to their gear score) in Flex raiding.

WoW is a game you know you need to have fun with, not some academic title.

After a few weeks, these guys will be so pleased they can join your Flex raiding group and WILL become better. If not they wll realise this part of the game is not for them and they will still support you in mats etc...

If you want to join as a raider to a guild that sets reasonable joining requirements, you better comply with it.

Most decent guilds are happy with a 10-20 questions survey application, which is very reasonable and helps a contender to generate good first impression by submitting an application that shows the thought and effort they are ready to put into it.

If you expect to be invited into any decent guild (and I am not even taking about cutting edge, just OK guild capable of raiding Mythic to some extent at least), by submitting "Hi! My name is Bob the Druid, I like ice cream and pudding! I do good DPS!", then your expectations are not matching the reality. On the other hand, none really needs 10 pages applications as you say - 1.5-2 pages of relevant text is extremely decent application, should take no more than 40 minutes of effort to make and then you can reuse it for years if you have to.

If a person is not ready to take 40 minutes of his time to secure a spot in a guild for years potentially, then he is not worth the collective human hours for the officers to decide whether he will be an asset for the guild or not.