Optimal loot distribution for progression...

[Freezer]

So I'm looking for the optimal way to distribute our loot for progression, I've been reading and have found a few posts mentioning to use ML instead of personal.

Which roles should get "more"?

Are the DPS suppose to get the majority of it? Tanks first??

If so when do you then provide it to the other roles, at what point would we know?

Thanks!

[Zerroth]

I strongly suggest not using loot council especially if this is a new raiding team or guild.

For starters, I'd use personal. Saves time distributing loot and works until your team can build enough consistency and trust to use a different method. Less drama/only person to hate is RNGesus.

[Radish Spirit]

Here's my personal advice: don't fucking do it. If you're not racing for firsts, you have no reason to invest the effort and energy into attempting an "optimal" method.

I'm sure your guild is on the high end of the spectrum, but unless you're at the bleeding edge of raid progression then the little bit of extra progression you will squeeze out of passing loot to the "right" people is not going to be worth the cost.

So you kill a boss one, maybe two raids earlier? Big deal. What's that mean in the long run? Literally nothing. You're going to be raiding this content for years and nobody is going to remember, be impressed by or give one tiny rat turd that you managed to down a boss on 1/13 instead of 1/16.

If people help you kill a boss, give them a chance at loot. It might not be optimal, but it's more fun & fair for everyone involved.

Just my opinion.

[netherflame1]

Here's my personal advice: don't fucking do it. If you're not racing for firsts, you have no reason to invest the effort and energy into attempting an "optimal" method.

I'm sure your guild is on the high end of the spectrum, but unless you're at the bleeding edge of raid progression then the little bit of extra progression you will squeeze out of passing loot to the "right" people is not going to be worth the cost.

So you kill a boss one, maybe two raids earlier? Big deal. What's that mean in the long run? Literally nothing. You're going to be raiding this content for years and nobody is going to remember, be impressed by or give one tiny rat turd that you managed to down a boss on 1/13 instead of 1/16.

If people help you kill a boss, give them a chance at loot. It might not be optimal, but it's more fun & fair for everyone involved.

Just my opinion.

Some guilds don't play for loot, for most progression guilds the faster you kill a boss the better ranking which leads to better recruiting, better performance, better sense of accomplishment. Loot is just a tool to achieve early kills.

More casual guilds should just run personal loot imo. No drama involved.

[Radish Spirit]

Some guilds don't play for loot, for most progression guilds the faster you kill a boss the better ranking which leads to better recruiting, better performance, better sense of accomplishment. Loot is just a tool to achieve early kills.

More casual guilds should just run personal loot imo. No drama involved.

Yup, that's pretty much what everyone says except it's mostly bullshit. The only people joining guilds based on tiny differences in progression are at the absolute top-end raiding, which you and your guilds probably are not (no offense). Who is seriously out there going "Oh, I would join that guild but they killed Tectus on 12/7 instead of 12/4 so I guess I'll apply elsewhere!" Nobody. Or at least nobody whose going to be joining your guild anyway.


Also, I don't have to "play for loot" to enjoy receiving it. I don't play for gold either. Or followers, pets, transmog gear, resources, etc. But, it's still fun to get stuff. Anyone who says they don't enjoy getting loot from bosses is full of shit. Even if your focus is on the guild and not the loot, you still recognize that better loot makes you a stronger asset and more valuable to the guild - so you want loot anyway. "I don't play for loot" is basically a bunch of bunk. Everyone likes loot. Some people are just awfully good at pretending they "totes don't care."

[Hogarr]

We made a spreadsheet that calculates the value of gear based on it's primary and secondary stats. The spreadsheet highlights the players than can use the loot and gives a point value based on the stat weight for each class. This allows us to see where the upgrade can be best used Mathematically.

[PBitt]

Well, we got six pieces from Bracken on ML, and we changed it to personal for some reason and got 2 from Tectus. It's a gamble, I guess. You could end up with more, you could end up with less, or exactly the same.

For pure progression, the absolute best way to distribute loot is with ML, gearing DPS > Tanks > Healers and giving it to the player/class who would benefit most from it. There is no argument, that is what you do if you want to make it as far as you can as quickly as you can. Not saying that is the best method for every guild (my own guild atm doesn't even do it) but it is the very best way to distribute loot for progression purposes.

That being said, there are easier methods to distribute loot...DKP/EPGP, need/greed, etc. They all pretty much accomplish the same thing; loot gets spread out fairly evenly in the long-term, and everyone is pretty evenly geared as a result. And if your raiders aren't total twits, they will still pass on stuff that is clearly a way better upgrade for someone else instead of being greedy, or perhaps an officer will step in. I still prefer loot council over the communist methods, but some things just work better for certain guilds. It is indeed easier to push loot council on well-established guilds than newer ones.

[WskyDK]

Roll PL for you first two clears (Could be a month or more for some raid teams)
Then switch to the traditional loot to help individuals fill gaps they have.
I'd stick with tiered loot, or epgp though if it's that much of an issue. Both are fair and take some of the responsibility away from Master looter.

- - - Updated - - -

Stuff and things.

I thought personal loot had a floor, where it would drop at least the same number of items normal loot would

[Sellinz]

Yup, that's pretty much what everyone says except it's mostly bullshit. The only people joining guilds based on tiny differences in progression are at the absolute top-end raiding, which you and your guilds probably are not (no offense). Who is seriously out there going "Oh, I would join that guild but they killed Tectus on 12/7 instead of 12/4 so I guess I'll apply elsewhere!" Nobody. Or at least nobody whose going to be joining your guild anyway.


Also, I don't have to "play for loot" to enjoy receiving it. I don't play for gold either. Or followers, pets, transmog gear, resources, etc. But, it's still fun to get stuff. Anyone who says they don't enjoy getting loot from bosses is full of shit. Even if your focus is on the guild and not the loot, you still recognize that better loot makes you a stronger asset and more valuable to the guild - so you want loot anyway. "I don't play for loot" is basically a bunch of bunk. Everyone likes loot. Some people are just awfully good at pretending they "totes don't care."

If you go into any type of serious raiding guild and actually care about loot beyond maybe being annoyed that the clown who died to the fixate on x boss got something over you because its legitimately better but you don't want to get over personal vendetta you don't belong in a high end guild that is looking to seriously progress. Loot is means to an end nothing more. Kill dates matter a lot more than you'd think, there are a lot of people who choose to apply my guild and choose to apply guilds better than mine just because of that '3 day difference' because 3 days could easily be 2-3 spots on the ladder.

[WskyDK]

If you go into any type of serious raiding guild and actually care about loot beyond maybe being annoyed that the clown who died to the fixate on x boss got something over you because its legitimately better but you don't want to get over personal vendetta you don't belong in a high end guild that is looking to seriously progress. Loot is means to an end nothing more. Kill dates matter a lot more than you'd think, there are a lot of people who choose to apply my guild and choose to apply guilds better than mine just because of that '3 day difference' because 3 days could easily be 2-3 spots on the ladder.

To add to that, three days might be a whole other reset. First kills are important, but second kills are more telling of a guilds abilities

[Radish Spirit]

If you go into any type of serious raiding guild and actually care about loot beyond maybe being annoyed that the clown who died to the fixate on x boss got something over you because its legitimately better but you don't want to get over personal vendetta you don't belong in a high end guild

Yup. Sure thing.

My point is out of 100 people who actually think they're in "high end" guilds, only about 3 actually are.

Kill dates matter a lot more than you'd think, there are a lot of people who choose to apply my guild and choose to apply guilds better than mine just because of that '3 day difference' because 3 days could easily be 2-3 spots on the ladder.

So you're one of the people who think they're in a high end guild when they're actually not? Neat.

- - - Updated - - -

To add to that, three days might be a whole other reset.

A "whole other reset" OMG rite?!

Nobody gives a shit, honestly. These aren't the things real people look at when they join guilds.

[Inthislzon]

I thought personal loot had a floor, where it would drop at least the same number of items normal loot would

That would made pretty much anything else absurd.

Worst case scenario on pl being the best one with ml? They are supossed to drop the same number of items on average, that's why personal on 5mans (BEFORE guaranteed drop from last boss) was on par with nbg. Less drama, sure, but exact same number of items over infinite runs

[Daffan]

master probs.

personal has a chance of crap amount of loot and its randomly assigned

[Jivitz]

We made a spreadsheet that calculates the value of gear based on it's primary and secondary stats. The spreadsheet highlights the players than can use the loot and gives a point value based on the stat weight for each class. This allows us to see where the upgrade can be best used Mathematically.

Any chance you'd want to share this?