[Ret PVP] So, did you try lvl 100 talents, what's your choice and why ?

[Strear]

I've tried all three.

Final verdict is the easy way to go, it doesn't change anything to the " complexity " of our gameplay, and it seems to be the " way to go " in terms of damage from what I read everywhere.

Empowered Seals is very interesting, and the healing thing might be a great tool, permanently healing yourself is amazing. But to be honest, three seals and the gcd things is too much for me, I didn't play enough to get " used to ", but it takes too much attention for now. I guess I should spend a little more time on this. I don't know if, once mastered, it's better than the passive Final verdict : did someone spend some time comparing both ?

Seraphim has a great flavor from my point of view. I like the management, and I think it can be good to keep pressure. You can have a " mega burst " adding AV and HA plus trinket, but more than that, I like the idea of putting several " little bursts ", splitting all these over time, AW boom, then Seraphim, then HA, then Seraphim, ... many possibilities.

I've mostly played FV, but two days ago, I tried the other options, and I like the mechanic, the management, and the gameplay of Seraphim. Nobody can control your burst " all the time ", and with Seraphim, it's too much uptime to control you like when " Hey, Ret popped wings, let's control him ".

Sure, the ramp up time is specific and slow, but I like the idea too " let me ramp up, then you'll see ".

I think it can be very useful in a BG/RBG context. I don't know in arenas, but I think it can too.

Anyway, I'm always on the way of optimization, so I'd like to have your opinions, ideas, things you tried ... and, because it's important and too often under mentioned, in which context (world pvp, arena, bg/rbg) ?

[Hofflerand]

Empowered Insight doesn't heal for enough. I think it's balanced around Prot PvE. Empowered Justice can occasionally be useful (e.g. catch up to someone who just used Gateway) but I don't know how realistic it is to try to maintain three buffs.

Seraphim is tough to use against good players who control and kite a lot, but I found it to be surprisingly strong with Sanctified Wrath while climbing the ladder with a rogue in 3's. Maybe I'll give it another shot sometime.

FV is simple and strong. The 10 yd range is icing on the cake and the increased Divine Storm radius is awesome in RBG's.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Final Getsuga.

It's obvious.

[Deleted]

Final verdict is the only viable option. Factually and objectively.

End of discussion

[Deleted]

final verdict in arena, because it's no nonsense. Seraphim / ES in BGs or casual play because it adds flavour.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

My pally is at 96 but I am seriously thinking of redoing my build to center around a judgement synergy with Empowered Seals, Long Arm of the Law, and Glyph of Burden of Guilt for PvPing. Ret so far is boring in some places with me just waiting through a couple GCDs for my judgement/Crusader Strike to come off CD. Empowered Seals could easily fill that downtime in my rotation, plus actually make the spec challenging for me to play. ES has a lot of possibilties in PvP. The main thing here for me would be 45% speed buff (from LAotL) + 20% (ES) = 65% running towards a target who is traveling at half speed. This pretty much allows me to prevent any Alliance scum I come across ingame from escaping. That insane!

I am currently running with Pursuit of Justice (the passive 15%, forgot the name) which apparently does not stack with Heart of the Crusader, meaning in reality it's usefulness is null. 15% isn't effective in PvP because you will mostly be running only a few feet here and there when in a group, and that 15% is unnoticeabe. When you need to get somewhere lightning fast on foot, it's effectiveness comes from hording holy power which you will lose in a few seconds later. Also doesn't do much against cowards trying to flee. That's why I'm probably going to try out the judgement synergy above.

Final Verdict doesn't sound too interesting; it's basically Eternal Flame for Templar's Verdict. Probably for a raid build, but jot for PvPing for me.

I don't see any great builds with Seraphim Atm.

[ipoststuff]

I use FV + DP for pvp. Btw FV is not just more dmg than TV. There are very important differences

1) It's holy damage. This means i can stay on high armor targets now. Before WoD if you didnt have cooldowns up your damage suffered a lot against high armored targets.
2) It has 10 yard range. This is really important as we dont have a instant gap closer and rely on running upto our targets.
3) Divine Storm synergy. With Emp. DS you get free Divine Storms. Without FV they're quite useless in single target and medicore in aoe. With FV buff up Emp.DS becomes great. I dont even know what people with other 2 talents do with this proc.