Regrowth vs. Healing Touch under Nature's Swiftness

[Delekii]

With my stats:

Healing Touch - 18308
Regrowth - 11122


HT = 1.15*18308 = 21054 * 1.5 = 31581 average heal per cast, 54924 maximum on crit. Average living seed heal per cast = 0.15*0.5*54924=4119, for a total average of 31581+4119=35700 and a peak heal of 54924*1.5=82386 (crit HT + living seed).

Glyphed RG = 2*11122*1.5 = 33366 average and maximum heal per cast, with an average LS per cast of 0.75*0.5*33366=12512. Total average and maximum is 45878.

No Glyph RG = 1.75*11122*1.5= 29195, with LS of 29195*.75*.5=10948, total average of 40143, and a HoT average of 2730*1.15(crit)*2(duration from NS)=6279, total average heal of 46422, but the last 6k being over 24 seconds.

So, in TLR;
HT = 35700 average, 82386 with crit.
RG(glyphed) = 45878 average and on crit.
RG(unglyphed) = 46422 average with 6279 being over 24 seconds, and peak burst = 50049 on crit.

Now, the above all assumes a crit chance of 15%, which is much higher than we want. The lower the crit chance, the lower the average becomes for HT in particular but also unglyphed regrowth, and of course, the less often you get the crit maximum. In an ideal world where we have 0 crit from gear and only the 5% from raid buff, average HT under NS for me is 28835. All of the above also assumes no overhealing from the cast or the living seed.

A few guides I have read suggest Nature's Swiftness should be used with Healing Touch, but I must be failing to understand why. Is it really worth giving up a significant average increase for a comparatively small chance at a crit? Even if you have the glyph of healing touch, I feel like it mightn't be worth casting HT for the singular 2s gain over Regrowth when deciding which spell to use under NS.

Am I missing something? I am tempted to macro nature's swiftness to regrowth and leave it at that. For me, choosing between a garunteed 45k vs 35k with a very small chance at 80k, I'm going with the 45k every time.

[Hypasonic]

Dunno about anyone else, but my NS is always used with a glyphed regrowth.

[Deleted]

You have a valid point. Dont forget about the Enhanced Lifebloom, that 20% extra chance on top of your already crit bonus if lifebloom is on the target (which im assuming it will be). So 35% bonus assuming the 15% crit you mentioned.

[Hildrande]

Healing touch With Enhanced Lifebloom:
HT=1.35*18308*1.5=37074
LS=18308*2*1.5*0.5*0.35=9612
In total 46686.

The shorter expression is basevalue*(1+0.35*2)*1.5

You got the Regrowth math wrong though. Glyphed Regrowth heals for 3 times tooltip value, 2x with the crit and half of that, 1x, for the LS. For you:

Glyphed Regrowth: 11122*3*1.5=50049

For non-glyphed Regrowth, the HoT goes to 18s, not 24, but tick value is also increased 50%.
Non-glyphed Regrowth: (11122*(1+(0.6+0.15)*2)+2730*1.15*1.5)*1.5=(11122*2.5+3140*2.25)*1.5=41708+10598=52306.

If Living Seed times out:
Glyphed Regrowth: 11122*2*1.5=33366
Non-glyphed Regrowth: (11122*(1+0.6+0.15)+2730*1.15*1.5)*1.5=(11122*1.85+ 3140*2.25)*1.5=30864+10598=41462.
Healing Touch: 31581

To sum up

31581 Healing Touch no LS
33366 Glyphed Regrowth no LS
41462 Non-glyphed Regrowth no LS

35700 Healing Touch with LS
46686 Healing Touch with Enhanced Lifebloom and LS
50049 Glyphed Regrowth with LS
52306 Regrowth with LS

Non-glyphed Regrowth is the winner in terms of pure HPS for both non-tanks and tanks, provided you have the time to wait 18 seconds for the healing to tick in. Assuming the math is correct :-P

[Delekii]

Ah ok - I had forgotten about enhanced lifebloom. Ok, so it's probably worthwhile using HT on your current LB target, but otherwise regrowth.

With Enhanced Lifebloom:
HT=1.35*18308*1.5=37074
LS=18308*2*1.5*0.5*0.35=9612
In total 46686, making it better than all Regrowth options.

On non-tanks HT will typically be best. I often use NS on non-tanks.

Maybe having both macros around can be handy?

I think you mean the other way around? HT is more valuable on the tank, assuming your LB is on the tank?

[Hildrande]

I think you mean the other way around? HT is more valuable on the tank, assuming your LB is on the tank?

No, because the crit % and thus LS component of RG is larger than it is for HT, regardless of the perk.

And I revised the post.

[Deleted]

You guys really use NS differently than I do if you are taking into account the Rg HoT :/

For me it's glyphed Rg 100% of the time. Either the seed gets used, then it's mathematically the (non-gambling) top choice. Or the seed expires, which means the target didn't die obviously (and using NS + x was a wrong call obviously).
Unglyphed Rg feels unfitting for a panic button, the gap between crit and non-crit is too large for my taste (kinda like MoP Shaman Healing Surge: Crit + Ancestral proc = everyone happy, non-crit = everyone dead)

Like to see your calculations as part of the discussion, Teryx. Made me realize I should probably NS HT should I ever drop Rg glyph.

[Hildrande]

Unglyphed Rg feels unfitting for a panic button

You can also view it as free healing and try use it on cooldown.

[Deleted]

True enough. I should really get into raiding again haha. Everything theorycraft I read I instantly judge by CM / pvp standards without thinking

[Delekii]

No, because the crit % and thus LS component of RG is larger than it is for HT, regardless of the perk.

And I revised the post.

Oh right .. I calculated the LS average on glyphed RG for unglyphed crit chance.

Regardless, all of the above only puts regrowth further ahead for me. I can't see a point to using NS with HT.