[WW] When do you pop your first FoF?

[Zufall]

Playing Chi Brew/Xuen/Serenity.

Are you guys saving to pop your first FoF for TEB, or are you guys using it to get to your first TEB and then popping Serenity.
Current opener at 5 Chi.

Xuen
TP
RSK
Jab
BoK
Chi Brew
BoK
Chi Brew
Until 10TEB
FoF
Serenity
BoK/RSK spam
Then following priority system. I also like holding my FoF if I have 8-9 stacks of TEB.

Don't have any proc trinkets, so there is no point in holding my TEBs.

[Babylonius]

The general consensus, that appears in several threads in this forum, is exactly what you posted, with the exception of "Until 10TEB". Use FoF as soon as you've exhausted your Chi Brew and pop TEB before it regardless of stacks.

After FoF is over, use up your energy and Chi till you're starved and left with 2 Chi before popping Serenity. Use Jab during Serenity to keep from energy capping and to end Serenity with max Chi.

[rijn dael]

Use Jab during Serenity to keep from energy capping and to end Serenity with max Chi.

That can't be right can it? In the simc model - it won't ever get past:

actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=!talent.chi_explosion.enabled&(buff.combo_breaker_bok.react|buff.serenity.up)

The T17 listing pegs BoK at 40-45k dpct, vs jab at 10k.

Even if you are losing the energy to the cap, that is better than losing >30k per gcd you jab inside serenity unless I am missing something huge?

[Colemcnizzler]

I would definitely use FoF off cooldown though try and make sure your energy isn't at 100 before you do. use it as a regen tactic though if there is some cleave feel free to use it. I have good examples and game play if you want to come check out my stream twitch.tv/colemcnizzler if you want to come watch. I can hopefully explain questions about WW if you might have.

[Laeahndria]

That can't be right can it? In the simc model - it won't ever get past:

listing pegs BoK at 40-45k dpct, vs jab at 10k.

Even if you are losing the energy to the cap, that is better than losing >30k per gcd you jab inside serenity unless I am missing something huge?

Does that take into consideration the extra chi generated from the jab? Maybe it is only optimal to jab to avoid energy capping if less than 4 chi.

[Siri]

After FoF is over, use up your energy and Chi till you're starved and left with 2 Chi before popping Serenity. Use Jab during Serenity to keep from energy capping and to end Serenity with max Chi.

I doubt that's worth it, at least during initial Serenity. You're absolutely going to have trinket procs active along with high stacks of TeB and a potion. You're getting a juiced up Jab and a BoK that will probably benefit from just about nothing versus a fully procced up and brew'd up BoK.

[rijn dael]

Does that take into consideration the extra chi generated from the jab? Maybe it is only optimal to jab to avoid energy capping if less than 4 chi.

That's a better argument to make, assuming you will still end serenity at (close to) full energy. If you have no damage buffs that is probably an okay trade (the BoK gcd after serenity ended would probably otherwise be downtime while energy starved, you should be one jab better off, and BoK neutral).

If you have any damage scaling buffs up (eg teb/trinkets etc), I think that would be the wrong decision - eg with TeB up, you bok for 70k, vs 16k jab + 45k bok later resulting in a loss. Numbers will be slightly less than that because 45k bok / 10k jab is the average for entire fight in t17m gear, but you get the idea. I am including bok dot in bok damage - I assume it scales by TeB but I haven't checked. I also haven't checked if the dot rolls like ignite, but I assume it does or the math changes.

Keep in mind, I am just using simc data to extrapolate, I could be wrong somewhere :-)