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  1. #41
    The Patient Mibzo's Avatar
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    I have the same problem as OP, my dps is really low as combat. Pulling 16-17k at Butcher HC with an ilvl at 640, which is really bad tbh. Started as Sub when I first dinged lvl 100, so my stats aren't really suited for Combat atm, but keep getting better items as the days go by. I'm using VR and MfD, don't know if I should switch to Anti instead of MfD?
    Be strong, Clarence! Be strong for mother!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibzo View Post
    I have the same problem as OP, my dps is really low as combat. Pulling 16-17k at Butcher HC with an ilvl at 640, which is really bad tbh. Started as Sub when I first dinged lvl 100, so my stats aren't really suited for Combat atm, but keep getting better items as the days go by. I'm using VR and MfD, don't know if I should switch to Anti instead of MfD?
    The answer to that question is simple. Do you find yourself in a situation where you need to pool for energy before spending finishers? If the answer is yes, anticipation will make your life easier and potentially boost your DPS.

  3. #43
    The Patient Mibzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    The answer to that question is simple. Do you find yourself in a situation where you need to pool for energy before spending finishers? If the answer is yes, anticipation will make your life easier and potentially boost your DPS.
    Thanks for the answer!
    Be strong, Clarence! Be strong for mother!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibzo View Post
    I have the same problem as OP, my dps is really low as combat. Pulling 16-17k at Butcher HC with an ilvl at 640, which is really bad tbh. Started as Sub when I first dinged lvl 100, so my stats aren't really suited for Combat atm, but keep getting better items as the days go by. I'm using VR and MfD, don't know if I should switch to Anti instead of MfD?
    I have the exact same ilvl (640) and do a little over 20k on that fight as combat with MfD/DfA, should post your logs I am sure people could point out what your doing wrong, I highly doubt it has anything to do with picking MfD or Anti and optimal stats will help, but not make up for several thousand dps.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy Longstroke View Post
    I have the exact same ilvl (640) and do a little over 20k on that fight as combat with MfD/DfA, should post your logs I am sure people could point out what your doing wrong, I highly doubt it has anything to do with picking MfD or Anti and optimal stats will help, but not make up for several thousand dps.
    I am not sure about OP, but sometimes picking convenient talents over theoretically superior choices can make your life easier. I think more than one patch, ignoring expertise was theoretical DPS increase but I never did that due to its practical implications. The choice of MfD over anticipation may have similar effect on OPs rotation during fights.

  6. #46
    Not saying it won't, just saying it will not suddenly make his dps jump by several thousand dps, or at least it shouldn't and that the problem is probably less to do with talent choice and more to do with rotation problems.

  7. #47
    Or that he have low haste. But yeah, never using KS/AR in Deep Insight is a rather huge dps loss, which is something I am learning as I just join pugs and bump my head against Butcher just to learn the playstyle better.

    Practice makes you better, keep on doing it, try different ways to use CDs, and suddenly you find your self climbing that dps ladder.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    If you are pulling 18k with that gear, you may be doing something wrong. I was pulling that with my 634 or so gear.
    did you do that in a raid or in a 5 man with 15% dmg buff ?

  9. #49
    Deleted
    I doubt a combat rogue in 634 gear pulls 18k on Butcher.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    did you do that in a raid or in a 5 man with 15% dmg buff ?
    In Kargath normal. I reach 25-27k at initial pull, then slowly decline. When the fight was over, I had some number around 17 19k. I didn't go spectator area. I was on the bass all the time.

    Since you are shocked, you made me wonder those numbers too . We have raid tomorrow. My Ilvl is 637 now. No trinkets or weapons are changed. I will post my dps here.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2014-12-08 at 03:46 PM.

  11. #51
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanthem View Post
    Combat is ONLY good for Cleaves. I am currently playing Combat for anything with cleave and playing Sub for single target fights. If you are playing Combat single target, more or less you are just hogging down your raid group.
    bullshit... and try playing sub or whatever without daggers

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
    I doubt a combat rogue in 634 gear pulls 18k on Butcher.
    Probably possible on single pulls with great RNG, but I agree that's unlikely.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
    I doubt a combat rogue in 634 gear pulls 18k on Butcher.
    Not that far of a stretch, pulled 20k'ish on Butcher NM with 637.

    (Apparently I'm not allowed to post any links yet. WoL link inc.)

    Still thinking about going sub as I feel it's better at this gear level, though combat is said to be doing better at higher gear levels. I'm at a loss!

  14. #54
    I actually have some questions as well regarding low DPS numbers for Combat. I recently made the switch to Combat (ilvl 627) from assassination, due to how it seems to be better for the current raiding bosses.

    What I do know is I believe my haste is way too low, so need to get some gear to help out with that. And yes, my trinkets are terrible, have not had much luck in that department. Oh heroic dungeon bosses I tend to be doing around 14-16k. Is that normal? Off target?

    My opening rotation is Amb > SnD > RS > A. Rush to Deep Insight > KS with just enough time to get the duration in before Deep Insight runs out.

    My questions...

    1. Is Haste the only thing that I'm lacking?
    2. I know most sources say do not delay cooldowns for deep insight, however when is it appropriate to do so? Maybe 5-10 seconds?
    3. Is DfA supposed to be weaved in every other Evis? Use DfA instead of Evis as a finisher? I'm currently using Venom Rush, but according to sources DfA is supposed to be a DPS gain due to Ruthlessness.

    *Edit* It will not let me add my armory link...

    Character : Hellbrecht
    Realm : Cenarius
    Last edited by Oneglaive; 2014-12-08 at 06:33 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbrecht View Post
    2. I know most sources say do not delay cooldowns for deep insight, however when is it appropriate to do so? Maybe 5-10 seconds?
    This depends entirely on the duration of the fight.

    If delaying causes you to lose a use of the skill, it was a DPS loss. If delaying does not cost you a use, it was a gain. Can you decide that on-the-fly for an encounter where you probably don't know the length? Unlikely.

  16. #56
    I did 19.3k DPS last night on our Butcher kill as a 637 Combat Rogue. I think my DPS was OK but I'm sure there is room for improvement.

    Some considerations from my experience only (I'm not talking about perfectly executed theorycrafted fights):

    1) Do not delay AR/KS for Red State or whatever unless you're absolutely sure it's the last one you can use in the fight;
    2) Haste is king;
    3) DfA is an improvement over Venom Rush at least at my ilvel. It makes the rotation smoother and makes it that much easier to keep up SnD;
    4) The knowledge of when to pool energy is extremely important.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Knj View Post
    I did 19.3k DPS last night on our Butcher kill as a 637 Combat Rogue. I think my DPS was OK but I'm sure there is room for improvement.

    Some considerations from my experience only (I'm not talking about perfectly executed theorycrafted fights):

    1) Do not delay AR/KS for Red State or whatever unless you're absolutely sure it's the last one you can use in the fight;
    2) Haste is king;
    3) DfA is an improvement over Venom Rush at least at my ilvel. It makes the rotation smoother and makes it that much easier to keep up SnD;
    4) The knowledge of when to pool energy is extremely important.
    Hey KnJ,

    Ok I am understanding the decision to delay or not based on the duration of the fight remaining. So is DfA used at 5 combo points instead of a evis? When it comes to pooling energy, I usually pool to 60 or so to get the most out of the SS after the evis, or when red state is approaching.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbrecht View Post
    Hey KnJ,

    Ok I am understanding the decision to delay or not based on the duration of the fight remaining. So is DfA used at 5 combo points instead of a evis? When it comes to pooling energy, I usually pool to 60 or so to get the most out of the SS after the evis, or when red state is approaching.
    What do you mean by getting most out of SS? Does evis gives some sort of buff like envenom? I think not but asking for clarification.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    What do you mean by getting most out of SS? Does evis gives some sort of buff like envenom? I think not but asking for clarification.
    Oh no, my poor choice of words, sorry. I mean to SS as quickly as possible to get back up to 5 CBs.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellbrecht View Post
    Oh no, my poor choice of words, sorry. I mean to SS as quickly as possible to get back up to 5 CBs.
    Okay, in that case, you do not gain DPS by first pooling to 60 and the bursting your energy. Because in the end, you will have same amount of energy used which corresponds to same amount of DPS with little fluctuation (RNG). As far as I know, only assassination rogues pool energy and that's because you don't want your envenom buff to overlap and you want more attacks during envenom.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2014-12-08 at 09:01 PM.

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