Item Funneling

[Eats Compost]

I don't really care so long as it's not made possible by ridiculous undertuning of the fights.

It's possible for these guys to do that only because they've got the skill, dedication and appropriate alt preparation to make it feasible with any degree of speed or success. If your average guild tried doing this, they'd probably fail because people are bungling around on alts that are neither properly geared nor skilled. It's only a problem when it's possible for everyone to do it reliably thanks to, as previously mentioned, a raid being far too undertuned. And when I say "undertuned", I'm thinking of a situation like post-squish SoO.

So, yeah. As long as it's only something being done by guys competing for world firsts and whatever, it doesn't bother me.

[Deleted]

So erhm... what's your suggestion then exactly that would not screw over the other 99.99% of raiding population? 1 item max gotten per char per boss? Well gz to the casual guilds that have 2x mail drop with no shaman and 1 hunter in the raid. Now he has to chose which to take and other will be DE'ed in front of his eyes.

[Anzen]

We run three runs but I don't see what the issue is; people that put effort in get rewarded.

It also lowers the RNG in which guild has the most weapons/trinkets drop or who get's luckiest with coins.

That said I wouldn't really care if they somehow fixed it (though I'm not really sure how it's possible to fix :P)

[Primalthirst]

It's not really a problem that needs fixing or could be fixed.

That said, I'm sure a lot of people would prefer it if they didn't have to feel compelled to run X clears a week to be competitive. I'm all for dedication and playing an unhealthy amount of MMOs and maybe I'm old-fashioned in saying this: But I'd rather it take 12 hours a day, every day to get one character prepared than 2 hours per character and as a result having to maintain 6.

Edit: For those suggesting personal loot, that's a terrible idea. It adversely affects the entire playerbase for very little, if any, benefit.

[Venant]

It's a good question but no, although I feel quite burnt out after this week I know next I can just enjoy mythics on my main next with only some heroic raids and probably at the end of the week.

You don't get anything in this world without sacrificing something, I suppose it comes down to a value judgement of whether what you sacrifice is worth it or not. There are plenty of people on the opposite end of the spectrum who get angry when they aren't simply given things for 'free'.

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Second your comparison makes no sense at all. Olympic athletes can't train with alternate bodies and funnel the rewards of the training in just one body.

Well you could run an Olympic training system like China where you mass recruit huge numbers of extremely young athletes, deprive them of their families and childhoods, and then simply throw them away when they are no longer useful to you. It is horribly inhuman to make people sacrifice so much, yet it is very effective for winning gold medals.

[Deleted]

So erhm... what's your suggestion then exactly that would not screw over the other 99.99% of raiding population? 1 item max gotten per char per boss? Well gz to the casual guilds that have 2x mail drop with no shaman and 1 hunter in the raid. Now he has to chose which to take and other will be DE'ed in front of his eyes.

Personal Loot fixes item funneling, it is pretty simple straight forward solution to the problem.

[cFortyfive]

Am I the only one who thinks that Blizzard needs to address this?

Is it healthy gameplay when a guild kills Heroic Marg'ok 5+ times in a week using twinks or fanboys to funnel all loot via Lootmaster to a few main raiders?
Average raid ilvl 667 after the first id is a joke.

Maybe Blizzard should enforce personal loot for raids even if there will be whiny guilds that claim to get bad loot distribution.

Pretty entertaining opening a whine thread and calling others whiny in the op well played. This thread goes quite well together with the remove gold thread from the general forum.

[Deleted]

Can someone explain this to me?
In heroic you can only get loot from one boss once per week right? So what is is these guilds are doing then? I don't get it...

[ponies]

It doesn't seem like you're competitive enough for it to affect your progression or raid experience.
so why do you care?

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Can someone explain this to me?
In heroic you can only get loot from one boss once per week right? So what is is these guilds are doing then? I don't get it...

So essential you have a guild that has a lot of alts, and you bring say 5 mains and 5 alts and when you distribute gear you don't hand anything out to alts and only to mains.

[Primalthirst]

Can someone explain this to me?
In heroic you can only get loot from one boss once per week right? So what is is these guilds are doing then? I don't get it...

Each person has multiple characters so they clear the instance up to 6 times during the week. So you split your "mains" into different groups so there is 1 of each Armor class and someone who can use Spirit and Bonus Armor in each raid. You then give every piece of loot to those specific people so they each end up with up to ~5 times as much gear as if you only ran one run.

[Deleted]

Personal Loot fixes item funneling, it is pretty simple straight forward solution to the problem.

So forced personal loot? So if a casual guild wants to funnel some loot to a returning player they are not allowed because a handful of people in top guilds apparently didn't know what they signed up for and now want blizz to fix it for them? Yeah, nice suggestion.

[Anzen]

Can someone explain this to me?
In heroic you can only get loot from one boss once per week right? So what is is these guilds are doing then? I don't get it...

Let's say you have 20 main raiders who want to raid mythic.

Let's say you get them to each level an alt, so you now have 20 main raiders and 20 alts.

Let's say you do two raids, each with 10 mains and 10 alts. The 10 alts pass gear, so the 10 mains in each raid now get double the amount of gear.

We can go further with this:

Let's say you do four raids, each with 5 mains and 15 alts. The 15 alts pass gear, so the 5 mains in each raid now get four times the amount of gear to share between them.

Results: 20 raiders in almost full gear.

[Deleted]

Thank you, this explains it all.

[Pur1tas]

So you are crying that people that leveld and geared 5 chars during the time before raids opened now run in 5 raids consisting of mainly twinks and some mains in order to gear those few mains as fast as possible?

So you are telling me this discourages people to raid? If this is enough to discourage people they should think about their view on life. If someone decides to clear 2 raids (nhc HC) with 5 chars in a week this does not make it unfair. It gives them the loot they deserve for putting so much effort into this.

I liked the olympics comparisson made earlier. If someone decides to train for 10 hours a day 7 days a week he will get more out of it than someone training 2 hours a day twice a week. Those people go to Normal and Heroic with their main char once. lets say they go with 30 people. They going to have what like 6 mains and 24 alts in that raid? They gear their mains and manage to clear heroic and normal with their challange mode and BoE gear only giving loot to the 6 players in each raid.

Considering that some guilds that give loot to everyone in the raid do not manage to even clear the raid in the first week I think these players deserve the full NHC/HC equiped chars for their mythic progress.

This is the same argument we had when Highmaul opened. People complaining that guilds with Challange mode gear could clear easier while they could have done the same thing. It is not about being unfair it is about using all your possibilities to get the gear you want.

If you want to be the best at something you will always have to be the one putting the most effort in. And if you are putting a lot of effort in there will always be people racing you by trying to put more effort in. This is life.

[Deleted]

So forced personal loot? So if a casual guild wants to funnel some loot to a returning player they are not allowed because a handful of people in top guilds apparently didn't know what they signed up for and now want blizz to fix it for them? Yeah, nice suggestion.

A returning player does not need full heroic/mythic loot on week 1 besides he can do LFR, normal, heroic and mythic in one id on personal loot that will give him respectable gear.

If your guild can afford to drag an ungeared returning player through high end raids, than you don't need him to be BiS after a week either.

Returning players should not be geared up to current standards 1 day after hitting 100 anyway. Pretty sure Blizz will implement something along the lines of Timeless Isles during raid tiers anyway while currently returning players should spam heroic dungeons.

[Pastspirit]

This sort of thing is pretty much required if you want to compete for the first tier of an expansion. For later tiers, it matters slightly less however if loot funneling was stopped there would just be other ways to get loot such as dumping a lot of gold on extra items that we didn't have drop from the runs (+BMAH loot).

[Deleted]

So you are crying that people that leveld and geared 5 chars during the time before raids opened now run in 5 raids consisting of mainly twinks and some mains in order to gear those few mains as fast as possible?

So you are telling me this discourages people to raid? If this is enough to discourage people they should think about their view on life. If someone decides to clear 2 raids (nhc HC) with 5 chars in a week this does not make it unfair. It gives them the loot they deserve for putting so much effort into this.

No it doesn't. It would be fine if they got the loot spread on the 5 characters they raided with.

Being able to circumvent the loot system to concentrate all loot on one character is not fine.

If you want to make a valid Olympic Comparison you can make one

Item Funneling = Doping

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This sort of thing is pretty much required if you want to compete for the first tier of an expansion. For later tiers, it matters slightly less however if loot funneling was stopped there would just be other ways to get loot such as dumping a lot of gold on extra items that we didn't have drop from the runs (+BMAH loot).

BMAH offering items that are from future raid tiers is major bs too.

But at least the quantity is extremely limited, you can't just go around and fully equip your raid with this.

[cFortyfive]

Being able to circumvent the loot system to concentrate all loot on one character is not fine.

A system that's in place since 10 years. More drama pls. There are less than a thousand players who profit from this system don't be too mad.

[Deleted]

A system that's in place since 10 years. More drama pls. There are less than a thousand players who profit from this system don't be too mad.

It was not abused before, it is getting more and more extreme now with each addon.

And yeah less than a thousand players because item funneling drastically reduced the number of guilds that were capabale of finishing in the top 10, 50, 100 or even 250 because it IS mandatory or you are WEEKS behind.

[Pur1tas]

No it doesn't. It would be fine if they got the loot spread on the 5 characters they raided with.

Being able to circumvent the loot system to concentrate all loot on one character is not fine.

If you want to make a valid Olympic Comparison you can make one

Item Funneling = Doping

No its not Doping

Thats the most stupid thing I am going to read for a long time tbh.

It would be doping if all characters, even the alts, would get all the gear it would be doping.

They are not tricking the system but using it in a way to profit from it.

More effort = more gear

If they would raid 5 times a weak and equip 5 raids you would not call it doping either.

They do not concentrate all the loot on one character but 5-6 per raid. This is just the same thing we do with a full raid of mains. We concentrate the loot onto the highest dps.

The only difference is how they spread their mains across the raids.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.