1. #1
    Deleted

    14k DPS with 1h Frost

    So we managed to down only 2 bosses in Highmaul and it was pretty tight. There is no way we can down Brackenspore with our current output, since except for 1 guy with around 20k DPs, the rest of us had around 14.

    Including me, a 1H Frost DK. With a ilevel of around 636 I can't go over 14k as a sustained DPS.

    I see that it is no uncommon to have over 20k DPS for most DPS. Are they really geared?

    I tried to fine tune the simulations and even with the most disadvantageous setup, it shows 16k DPS (no buffs, maximum movement, which is not the reality of Highmaul). On on normal parameters simulation show around 20k.

    How are the rest of you faring at lower gear levels? Is my DPS to low? Is it the gear or maybe I can't play the class correctly?

  2. #2
    You'll find that excellent players are always 30% higher than good players. A large contributing factor may be that his stat weights are optimal, as there is no longer any reforging, you will have to try for the same item a few times before it rolls right. I played with two hunters today on Mar'Gok Heroic attempts, and one was 648ilvl, while the other was 669ilvl, but did 5k less dps every pull with the same talents and glyphs.

    One was simply a smarter person.

  3. #3
    ilevel 636 here that managed 17k dps on the butcher playing as unholy. Simc thinks in a perfect environment i should be hitting 20k-21k but i am not a perfect player by a long shot. I can see for stats that i miss diseases and have bad uptime but im not sure if that would equate to 3k dps. Like you i often see people say you should be hitting 20k dps but i cant seem to do it. Im not sure if its a case that they have better gear and a better distribution of secondary stats or if some of it comes down to bragging or exaggeration of their numbers.

    I also find myself in a raid group that is running normal with very few people hitting above 16k right now with ilevels from 225-235. i would like to think this is more the norm for a casual guild but im not sure just yet.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    If we would all pull 17k, things would look much better.

    Currently I can't try out Unholy because with the gear I have my own testing puts me 3k behind frost and simulations put me 4k behind...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloQFDB View Post
    I see that it is no uncommon to have over 20k DPS for most DPS. Are they really geared?
    Yes, they're geared a lot better than 636. They also play better. A well executed boss also increases the DPS (e.g. stacking the add onto Brackenspore). Wipes also show less DPS than a kill (since you miss execute damage).
    I did around 24k as Unholy on Brackenspore with <640, simply because I maximized my AoE damage.

    Btw, Brackenspore on normal is all about starting to use the flamethrower right from the beginning.
    Last edited by dr_AllCOM3; 2014-12-08 at 02:50 PM.

  6. #6
    Not quite sure what you are asking. Simcraft has 2H Frost simmed higher in DPS up to 655 I believe. Are you using the right talents? Flasking? Pre potting? I have always played blood so I decided to learn frost. For many pulls I was around 15k DPS in 641. I knew that was too low, fixed my mistakes, improved my rotation and know I pul 18k+. Perfect. Not quite but its a start. You aren't doing everything you can to improve your damage because if you were, it would be higher.

  7. #7
    My guild runs private logs, but on our heroic brackenspore kill I ended at 24.9k. Though I was playing Unholy. If you could pick up a 2H weapon I'd recommend changing from Frost to Unholy. If you want us to critique your Frost play we're going to need some logs to go through.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    I guess my real question is why is my DPS so much lower than in simulations? 14k vs 20k. There will always be a margin or error because simulations are best case scenario, but 6K is a lot. How much is realistic to expect? Is it about normal for my gear or is my rotation to blame.

    I did a fresh 10 minute combat dummy test and my DPS was incredibly stable, between 11 and 11.6 on single target, averaging out at 11.2K DPS for the entire fight of 6.8 million damage done, in 634 gear, with no flask and only Horn active. The rest up to 14 must be the raid buffs.

    dl.dropboxusercontent.com
    The breakdown for damage done:
    /u/45638513/dam01.png

    Ignore the stray Soul Reaper, I hit it once by mystake.

    Buffs:
    /u/45638513/dam02.png

    Don't know what's up with that Defile buff?

    Debuffs:
    /u/45638513/dam03.png

    My stats are:
    STR: 3645
    Crit: 8.63% (399)
    Haste: 19.82% (374)
    Mast: 31.78% (868)
    Multi: 7.56% (499)
    Vers: 5.66% (338)
    AP: 4010

    I shall repeat the experiment soon for Frost 2H to see how that stacks up...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry about the weird links, the forum did not allow me to post links.

    Use "dl.dropboxusercontent.com" and append the path I entered, so /u/45638513/dam01.png becomes dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45638513/dam01.png

    - - - Updated - - -

    dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45638513/dam02.png
    dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45638513/dam03.png

  9. #9
    ONe thing to note, dps on a dummy is always going to be significantly lower than a boss fight because soul reaper makes up so much of our dps and you wont get that below 45% phase with a target dummy.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloQFDB View Post
    I see that it is no uncommon to have over 20k DPS for most DPS. Are they really geared?
    ?
    Gear plays a part.. but itemization plays a much bigger part now that reforging is gone. My 2h frost dk 635 only has 1 item on him that isnt well rolled stat wise. Its the blackblade weap from ubrs. Compare it to my guildmate who has 640 but multiple pieces that are mediocre itemization like crit/haste and I do about 2-3k more dps than him on any given fight and hes probably a better player than I am rotation wise.
    Shhh im typing this to u on my i phone on the toilet at work

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Boggot View Post
    ONe thing to note, dps on a dummy is always going to be significantly lower than a boss fight because soul reaper makes up so much of our dps and you wont get that below 45% phase with a target dummy.
    Well it might be a big contribution, but since you only do it the execute phase, overall compared to your entire fight, soul reaper is about 10% of your damage.

    I stated comparing my output with simulation and the only major difference I can see is that I'm probably doing a few too many Obliterates and my Frost Strike contribution is not that high.

  12. #12
    Im switching between DW Frost DK, SMF Warrior and WW monk quite often, so i know those specs quite decently, not to say good.

    The thing is.. you didnt said WHICH class pulled 20k+ dps in similar item level. Im saying this because i have a main i640 monk whos devently (but not even close to fully) optimized and im always over 19-20k DPS as his main secondary stat is mutistrike, but i have a tons of crits and haste on my gear which negates lack of multistrike quite good.

    Now.. i have i642 frost DK with few epic CM's peaces optimized perfectly (mastery + multistrike), but a lot of blues that are quite poorly optimized, and i must say that i struggle to keep my DPS over 18k. I decided yesterday to roll as blood and spam HC's until i optimized my blues as they should be. i must say that it was a torture running over and over same dungeons, but once i finished i ended up with 1 piece not optimized right (haste + versa). The DPS increase was quite obvious, doing 18k easily, going over 20k from time to time when RNG gods are in my favor, but still not pulling it off easily as with Monk for instance.

    The thing is.. Frost and SMF are EXTREMELY gear dependent and A LOT of their damage comes from WEAPONS, while some of the other classes, for example Monks, are not so much thus they perform better with less effort at lower gear levels.

    My suggestion is to try to hunt down your mistakes and correct them and in downtime try to optimize your gear better. Beside that, my post comes AFTER latest Frost DK buff so you might even by default perform better than yesterday.
    Next to that, beside Unholy which is now AoE God, WW monks are one of the best classes optimized for WoD encounters via "Storm, Earth and Fire" so you also need to be aware of your class limitations and try to minimize them. It hurts ur DPS when you need to move out from boss and, lets say, burn down Brackenspore Fungal adds, while Monks can just send "SEF" out to adds and keep them selfs on the boss.

    Edit: Im mentioning Monks as i play one, so i can easily see the difference in effort needed to perform "optimally." That doesnt mean that im suggesting to anyone that they should move to a monk as im, for once, bored of mine, and i will, when we start farming HM move to my DK or warrior for quicker gearing. Play what you like, try to minimize your mistakes, be aware of your class pros and cons and try to minimize those cons as much as you can.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2014-12-09 at 10:39 AM.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    I'm not that worried anymore. I'm right now more of a 16k average DPS and on the last Brackenspore wipe I did manage 17K. We still can't down him.

    And occasionally, especially in the first calm phase of a fight I did manage to pull 19k for a while a few times. This is the cap my personal simulation puts me at.

    A part of this is anyway the buff Frost got .

  14. #14
    And occasionally, especially in the first calm phase of a fight I did manage to pull 19k for a while a few times. This is the cap my personal simulation puts me at.

  15. #15
    dont worry about it, were extreamely weapon dependent unlike other classes. it will all get better as the expansionmoves on.

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