Assassin Rotation Questions

[Waddy]

I've read the stickies, don't freak out mods, I'm asking for some clarification on a point that was made but seemed contradictory, and I want to ask about Crimson Tempest.

So far when I'm in a single target fight, I'm getting to 5 CP applying Rupture, then getting to 5 CP and hitting Envenom. However, even with Glyph of Energy and the talent giving me 155 base energy and increased regen... There are still times when I cannot get 5 CP built fast enough before Envenom drops. This is especially true when it comes time to reapply 5 CP rupture. Am I doing something wrong or is this ok?

During my training dummy session last night, I noticed that Crimson Tempest used exclusively instead of Envenom was yielding an increase of about 600-800 dps... It's my understanding that Venomous Wounds is built into Rupture now and is guaranteed to proc, and isn't based on the same proc chance as Wounding Poison. The question seems to be is 30% more procs better than 30% more damage from the procs we already have? When I used CT instead of Env it causes my Venomous Wounds to shoot up above my white damage with almost exactly the same number of applications as if I use Envenom... This to me seems to suggest that we benefit more from, more damage instead of more procs?

During AOE situations, I am using FoK's to build CP's and then using rupture on each mob, but I'm currently waiting for 5 CP, and I'm finding that takes too long to fully apply to all mobs especially 4 + pulls... I've read that some rogues are just using 1 FoK and then applying the 1 or 2 cp rupture and moving on, should I continue to wait for 5 stacks or should I be using this method?

Sorry for the wall of text, thanks for your time.

[glowpipe]

as for crimson tempest insted of envenom. I find it strange that it can be a dps increase.
Not having it up 100% of the time isnt that dangerous. Whats important is to use as many attacks as possible when envenom is up. Thats why you pool energy. I honestly dont know how much to pool now. Im going with 60 but another rogue did 100 and he crushed me on the meters.

Get 5 cp. wait til you have 100 energy and spam mutilate.

For Aoe. What ive heard is that you only apply 3+ cp ruptures on all mobs. Not waiting for 5 nor apply it with 1.

I can ofc be totaly wrong. So take what i say with a grain of salt before someone else agree with me

[Waddy]

That would explain exactly why my envenom seemed to be weak lol, I thought pooling was when you try to keep enough energy coming in so that you can maintain 100% uptime, that's going to change my approach drastically, gonna have to re-test that tonight.

[Nihilan]

Typically, you want to save up enough energy for at least two Mutilates within that envenom. During execute phase its easy to save up enough for two mutes AND a dispatch. Obviously, if Dispatch procs during your Envenom, use it after youve burned the energy you had saved up for those Mutes. Dont use the Dispatch proc first unless there is no chance of you capping.

My rogue isnt L100 yet so im not sure what its going to play like with the energy perk.

Using weakauras or tellmewhen to track your CP, Energy, and Envenom buff is very helpful for assassination.

[Kuntantee]

I think envenom uptime is more important than pulling 1 more mutilate by pooling energy. With low haste, pooling energy means less envenom uptime for melee attacks. You save your energy up to a certain level which means higher intervals between 2 envonom. You are wasting your potential poison procs from melee attacks. I only pool to prevent envenom overlap and it works for me better.

[Kael]

I think envenom uptime is more important than pulling 1 more mutilate by pooling energy. With low haste, pooling energy means less envenom uptime for melee attacks. You save your energy up to a certain level which means higher intervals between 2 envonom. You are wasting your potential poison procs from melee attacks. I only pool to prevent envenom overlap and it works for me better.

This... makes absolutely no sense. You have a limited number of CP to spend on envenom. If you have time to generate CP for 5 envenoms during a fight, you'll have the energy and time to get CP for 5 envenoms whether you use them at 25e or 80e+. Pooling energy should not result in lower envenom uptime. The only shift is the point in time during which you are buffed - and you want that buff to include your CP generators, hence pooling energy.

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I've read the stickies, don't freak out mods, I'm asking for some clarification on a point that was made but seemed contradictory, and I want to ask about Crimson Tempest.

So totally freaking out about a misunderstanding and question. Rawr.

[Kuntantee]

This... makes absolutely no sense. You have a limited number of CP to spend on envenom. If you have time to generate CP for 5 envenoms during a fight, you'll have the energy and time to get CP for 5 envenoms whether you use them at 25e or 80e+. Pooling energy should not result in lower envenom uptime. The only shift is the point in time during which you are buffed - and you want that buff to include your CP generators, hence pooling energy.

First of all, I didn't mean lower envenom uptime overall but lower envenom uptime for melee swings. But thinking about it again, unless skills delay melee swings, you are right.

[fredsterr]

I'll have to try this again...how do you guys do your opener? With Glyph of energy and a vanish you are able to get a 5 point envenom and 5 point CT to both buff during a portion of the same time.

I feel like them adding another poison buff from a finisher means we can expect to see more points and energy at higher gear levels than we can spend on envenom alone.

[Kuntantee]

I'll have to try this again...how do you guys do your opener? With Glyph of energy and a vanish you are able to get a 5 point envenom and 5 point CT to both buff during a portion of the same time.

I feel like them adding another poison buff from a finisher means we can expect to see more points and energy at higher gear levels than we can spend on envenom alone.

Here is how I do it

Start with stealth

-Muti until either my energy is saturated or 5CP
-SR (you can pool here for burst)
-Rupture
-Vanish
-Muti until 5CP
-Vendetta
-Envenom (you can pool energy if you wish here)

and rest is regular rotation.

Yesterday I pulled 18K on Butcher normal. I died at last 60 70seconds of fights so I am pretty sure I could converge close to 20K because after %34, my DPS increases very rapidly.

ilvl 640: Bad trinkets, bad weapons.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ephyr/advanced

[Deleted]

As for changing envenom for tempest on single target is not worth it, you just need to pool the energy and time your envenom buff with muti and you'll see the increase. As for using tempest in aoe sitaution , i would say unless there are 5-6+ adds and they are going to die within 10 seconds, then yes you can use it. If its up to 5 targets , 3 cp rupture them all , fill in with FoK, throw in an envenom if its possible (again with high energy) before FoK spam.

as for opener i go with : stealth > muti (if dispatch proced i use it right away) > rupture with w/e points i got (hopefully 3+) > reflection + vendetta > muti spam until 5 cps's > envenom > vanish > muti spam > prep , vanish , muti again > by this time you should reapply rupture 5 cp rupture and have some cp's from anticipation > normal rotation.

[Iakhovas]

Here is how I do it

Start with stealth

-Muti until either my energy is saturated or 5CP
-SR (you can pool here for burst)
-Rupture
-Vanish
-Muti until 5CP
-Vendetta
-Envenom (you can pool energy if you wish here)

and rest is regular rotation.

Yesterday I pulled 18K on Butcher normal. I died at last 60 70seconds of fights so I am pretty sure I could converge close to 20K because after %34, my DPS increases very rapidly.

ilvl 640: Bad trinkets, bad weapons.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ephyr/advanced

Why don't you have SR macro'd with vendetta? you should have rupture up before casting SR always btw, because that means you get more energy in those 8 seconds to get as many attacks in for your shadow to mimic. So it should be stealth > mut to 5cp > rupture > mut to 5cp > pool/cast SR and vendetta after > env > mut/dispatch regular rotation....and I'm a BE so I use my energy racial when it's depleted for an extra mut in there and also vanish for the cheap mut. Also glyph of disappearance is HUGE for us with a vanish ever 60sec. Coupled with prep and prepot on Butcher I have a great burst. My guild is also only doing normal and my dps was around 22k dps at the end. 630 weapons and bad trinkets my ilvl is 639 now but I got scales of doom after butcher kill so that will help in the future.

Keep in mind this is what I do and my dps is never more than 1-2k behind our pally monk or hunter or I'm top dps. I'm always hovering between 19k-22k on most kills or attempts.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Vhalas/simple

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As for changing envenom for tempest on single target is not worth it, you just need to pool the energy and time your envenom buff with muti and you'll see the increase. As for using tempest in aoe sitaution , i would say unless there are 5-6+ adds and they are going to die within 10 seconds, then yes you can use it. If its up to 5 targets , 3 cp rupture them all , fill in with FoK, throw in an envenom if its possible (again with high energy) before FoK spam.

as for opener i go with : stealth > muti (if dispatch proced i use it right away) > rupture with w/e points i got (hopefully 3+) > reflection + vendetta > muti spam until 5 cps's > envenom > vanish > muti spam > prep , vanish , muti again > by this time you should reapply rupture 5 cp rupture and have some cp's from anticipation > normal rotation.

Seems you beat me to it! You're rotation is almost identical to mine! I always beat out our combat rogue...it's always close but still winning and our other assass rogue is still stuck with loom weapon and 615 oh bad rng luck so he's much lower.