Frost just got a 7% Buff to its major abilities (FS, OB, HB) ...

[Schizoide]

Ahead in simcraft is not equivalent to ahead in bossfights. Sims are largely useless for comparative/ranking DPS.

Pretty huge bug, though. Man.

[Eliseus]

For Butcher. Unholy remains supreme on pretty much everything else due to movement and cleave.

Lol movement? You mean the knockback at 100% energy, and just running straight back and dpsing him? IDK how you raid butcher, but your DK shouldn't be as mobile as you are perceiving. Even more so frost can still close gaps with howling blast which I know dual wield can get away with at ease.

[Rothulean1]

Lol movement? You mean the knockback at 100% energy, and just running straight back and dpsing him? IDK how you raid butcher, but your DK shouldn't be as mobile as you are perceiving. Even more so frost can still close gaps with howling blast which I know dual wield can get away with at ease.

Kargath?
Brackenspore?
Tectus?
Twin Ogron?
Mar'gok?
Ko'ragh?

Yea, pretty much every fight except Butcher has movement and/or aoe. But I fully admit Frost wins on Butcher.

[Stacie]

Kargath?
Brackenspore?
Tectus?
Twin Ogron?
Mar'gok?
Ko'ragh?

Yea, pretty much every fight except Butcher has movement and/or aoe. But I fully admit Frost wins on Butcher.

Best of both DW frost. Good Single Target, Better than 2H at aoe, not bad with movement can still HB at a distance. Sounds like a winner for me. Shame the play-style is so dull.

[Eliseus]

Kargath?
Brackenspore?
Tectus?
Twin Ogron?
Mar'gok?
Ko'ragh?

Yea, pretty much every fight except Butcher has movement and/or aoe. But I fully admit Frost wins on Butcher.

Ignoring what Hugh pointed out, or what I already pointed out. Have you ever even played frost to conclude what you are saying, you almost act as if unholy doesn't get knocked back, better yet, pillar of frost prevents knock backs, though I wouldn't save it specifically for knock back mechanics, it's up for many of them. Do you truly thing the half a sec it takes to run to something, that an timmy and unholy dots would tick for more than a howling blast?

I can still argue the same though for every fight butcher or not. If the data is true that has been shown so far for frost to surpass unholy now, unholy will only out perform on more AoE intense fights, and even that could be thrown up into the air depending on how much AoE and how fast it dies if enough mastery could be pumped into frost to make howling blast > blood boil, even more so given the 7% boost. Also, the ease of using howling blast compared to blood boil should be even more evident of that.

I'm sorry if my post seems to hate on unholy, which is on the contrary, and I was playing unholy till this change and went back to dual wield and have been performing exceptional well imo compared to before. I just that think frost has a lot more potential than it was before, and maybe even more than unholy now.

[Rothulean1]

Oh Frost is fine. For sure. But Unholy pretty clearly remains superior for the content. Between pets, stronger diseases, faster run speed (not much faster, though) and much stronger cleave (72% AP Blood Boil vs 45% HB)...cleave and movement will continue to favor Unholy.

Wowhead may list Blood Boil as 60%, but it isnt. Feel free to test the tooltip and calculate it yourself. BB is 72% AP, not 60%.

[kumduh]

Glad to see Frost got a buff. Been playing Unholy ever since Shadowmourne... Time to bring back the Bloodvenom Blades

I feel cabbageloins' sig couldn't be more pertinent right now.

[Deleted]

Unholy is only better when both has a bad weapon, ppl still dont get how important weapon damage scaling is for frost.

Uh scales better on stats,frost scales way better on weapon.

Both are just as good, one might pull ahead i would not suprise if Frost pulls ahead from UH in single target, when mythic 2hand weapons start droping.


Just do the math, keep in mind our passives makes our weapons deal more weapon damage. further increasing obliterate wich i think ppl are even missing and havnt done the calculation accordingly.

Wich means once we get into mythic weapons our obliterate will crit for around 80k and that is WITHOUT note without Bis stats and fully geared mythic, just the 2hand weapon and some small heroic upgrades and some mythic.

the 2hand weapon you can say is an equivilent upgrade to 10 itemlevels of value stats for a UH dk.
I sure have not done the math cuz i cba but just right of the bat you can really easly come to this conclusion,its not rocket science math.

sure i will be of some % here and there but thing is the valuable thing with weaponscaling on frost, is so far ignored im just baffled with the ignorance.

great patch btw im glad they did not nerf unholy.

[Deleted]

Unholy is only better when both has a bad weapon, ppl still dont get how important weapon damage scaling is for frost.
Just do the math,
I sure have not done the math cuz i cba
its not rocket science math.
is so far ignored im just baffled with the ignorance.

pls stop...

[dr_AllCOM3]

Simcraft now has the frost changes included and frost still scales badly. Even 2h with the "awesome weapon scaling".

[Rothulean1]

Unholy is only better when both has a bad weapon, ppl still dont get how important weapon damage scaling is for frost.

Uh scales better on stats,frost scales way better on weapon.

This isnt MoP anymore.

[Deleted]

You dont say so?

[RuneDK]

Simcraft now has the frost changes included and frost still scales badly. Even 2h with the "awesome weapon scaling".

Frost will continue to scale badly until they decide to fix KM, the bad scaling part isn't new. I think they need to revert it back to HB/FS and increase Obliterates base crit percentage and overall damage for both specs. KM as is, is a massive problem for the spec going forward and they continued to basically not give a shit about the feedback about it for I don't know the third expansion now...so yes frost scaling being poor is absolutely nothing new.

[Playintrafic]

Unholy's toolkit will still make it superior on pretty much every fight in Highmaul (especially Mythic). Might aswell learn to play it.

If they give us a Lone Hunter style talent I would. Else, I am staying blood//frost. I dont do pets.

[Deleted]

No matter how much they buff Frost it'll always feel shit

>no death coil
>terrible rune regeneration
>FS costing 25RP instead of 24
>massive downtimes
>having to use Defile on single target
>soul reaper desyincing runes

[Stacie]

One thing about the DK community I always notice.. there is a huge split of players "frost is the best" and "unholy is always better" never really see anyone sticking up for both :P

They both play well, both have a time and a place to shine so just play what you enjoy not what some sim says is 1% better in X situation. The spec that you should choose is the one you enjoy chances are if there is only 1% or less difference you will play it better and make up for that anyway.

[Cerunnir]

One thing about the DK community I always notice.. there is a huge split of players "frost is the best" and "unholy is always better" never really see anyone sticking up for both :P

They both play well, both have a time and a place to shine so just play what you enjoy not what some sim says is 1% better in X situation. The spec that you should choose is the one you enjoy chances are if there is only 1% or less difference you will play it better and make up for that anyway.

Yeh, people fervently defent their favorite spec. I belive it is similar to the whole Android vs Apple thing over again, while both perform very well the "fanboys" is blind to the other side.

[Skarssen]

Unholy is only better when both has a bad weapon, ppl still dont get how important weapon damage scaling is for frost.

Uh scales better on stats,frost scales way better on weapon.

Both are just as good, one might pull ahead i would not suprise if Frost pulls ahead from UH in single target, when mythic 2hand weapons start droping.


Just do the math, keep in mind our passives makes our weapons deal more weapon damage. further increasing obliterate wich i think ppl are even missing and havnt done the calculation accordingly.

Wich means once we get into mythic weapons our obliterate will crit for around 80k and that is WITHOUT note without Bis stats and fully geared mythic, just the 2hand weapon and some small heroic upgrades and some mythic.

the 2hand weapon you can say is an equivilent upgrade to 10 itemlevels of value stats for a UH dk.
I sure have not done the math cuz i cba but just right of the bat you can really easly come to this conclusion,its not rocket science math.

sure i will be of some % here and there but thing is the valuable thing with weaponscaling on frost, is so far ignored im just baffled with the ignorance.

great patch btw im glad they did not nerf unholy.

Yes, you are the only one that has ever considered the impact of weapon damage on overall DPS....

Hey maybe when you finish composing your memoirs of brilliance you could figure out why things fall towards the ground when I drop them?

[Fishstiks]

One thing about the DK community I always notice.. there is a huge split of players "frost is the best" and "unholy is always better" never really see anyone sticking up for both :P

They both play well, both have a time and a place to shine so just play what you enjoy not what some sim says is 1% better in X situation. The spec that you should choose is the one you enjoy chances are if there is only 1% or less difference you will play it better and make up for that anyway.

I played DW frost for a painfully long time, and on Monday switched to Unholy. Before the switch (with wrong talents to start, and crummy offhand) I was at 12k dps. After, and while still learning UH mechanics, I jumped to 15k.

As a Frost guy, it hurts me to say that UH is stupid fun. While I understand frost much better, UH requires more focus and skill, which ultimately should determine the difference between specs (harder to master should yield performance advantages).

Just for my curiosity: to what extent does Soul Reaper being active at 45% for UH play into the numbers? If we're talking +/- 5% for spec v spec dps, neglecting that extra damage over the course of a fight would put a margin of about 3% error in there...

[Rothulean1]

You dont say so?

Dont post stuff if you arent up to date on the information. Ppl do listen. The weapon damage and AP to weapon damage conversion changes completely shifted everything. You should have known that.