Butcher HC help - Really don't know what we are doing wrong

[meroes]

Haven't looked at your logs but unless something is going horribly wrong, the biggest issue (at this gear lvl) is you have too many healers. Either have a healer go dps, or pick up 2-3 more dps. Healer light (less than 1 per 5) is better than healer heavy on this fight. Also have people pop their CD's (3 min or less) at the start so that they save mana/do more dps and have them back up by the soft enrage.

[Kisuke42]

I recently returned to game after few years break.

Warcraft Log seems like an amazing thing, but I have no idea how you guy can read it and get so detailed tips to OP.

Is there a guide on how to read the log or how to use the website?

[Deleted]

When i did this boss, all dps had to be above 20k dps and yeah 1 healer per grp should be enough, also its not a bad thing to have a shamy healer thrown into the melee grps helped me out alot when i did it due to easy spirit link placement (had around 40k hps while being the one moving in and out of the melee grp)
and as alot of peeps have mentioned 2 stacks before enrage and 3 stacks after is the way to go.

[Makh]

Having one too many healers is only a minor problem. The Boss HP scaling from one additional person isn't much of an issue, and if you're having deaths prior to enrage, cutting healers will not help that problem.

From my perspective, your DPS is just too low. With the exception of 2 guys who have to move in and out of groups for cleaves, everyone can really just tunnel the boss, and should be doing their absolute maximum potential dps. You've got a few guys who were consistently doing less than 20K, which is a pretty good minimum benchmark.

Honestly, you could have just pugged 2-3 245+ DPS from LFD doing 22K+ and you would have downed him pretty easily.

[Vultana]

I recently returned to game after few years break.

Warcraft Log seems like an amazing thing, but I have no idea how you guy can read it and get so detailed tips to OP.

Is there a guide on how to read the log or how to use the website?

Try this:
http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topi...hensive-guide/

[reyu]

i'll only talk about your discipline priest now, but imo he is not really healing correctly.
he pretty much only has to spam pw:s. casting heal is just not going to cut it.
I had over 120 casts of pw:s, your priest has a bit over 40. (my healing on butcher, which is not really perfect either, but that should give you an idea of how your disc should heal: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=5)
other than that, your dpsers need some boost as well.

[Alphabrain]

N Butcher your DPS has to be pulling 18k+, So for Heroic I'd assume its somewhere around 21k+.

I also dont get why you guys would spend so many times on a gear check boss.

[Deleted]

N Butcher your DPS has to be pulling 18k+, So for Heroic I'd assume its somewhere around 21k+.

I also dont get why you guys would spend so many times on a gear check boss.

Complete bullshit, you dont need 18k for normal at all...its like 19k for heroic.

[sarasun]

There is a lot of potential for this fight that is unknown, and I have no idea why.

First, the idea that hunters have to be the ones going in/out of groups is bad. You should have melee do it. Instead of a triangle, form a square around the boss with the two soaking groups being adjacent corners to tanks and the opposite corner being empty. That corner is the location assigned melee DPS will use to get out of their groups. This achieves two things. One, melee will lose literaly 0 DPS doing this while hunters can lose a small amount. Second, it keeps the people going out of groups inside the healing rains/mushrooms/other healing circles.

Second, the bonding cleave can and should be solo soaked by a mage/hunter/spriest/(probably more possible). Have everyone walk in melee range after cleave but that one person to make him/her the only available target for the bonding cleave. Reduces the healing requirement of the fight and makes it much simpler to manage bleed stacks in <30% phase as your normal soak groups aren't dealing with the charge stacks. Make sure your solo soakers are just not part of any group.

Those aren't some huge things but they can help make the fight a lot smoother and simpler. Never seen anyone else than our guild using any of these two "tricks".

[gallamann]

There is a lot of potential for this fight that is unknown, and I have no idea why.

First, the idea that hunters have to be the ones going in/out of groups is bad. You should have melee do it. Instead of a triangle, form a square around the boss with the two soaking groups being adjacent corners to tanks and the opposite corner being empty. That corner is the location assigned melee DPS will use to get out of their groups. This achieves two things. One, melee will lose literaly 0 DPS doing this while hunters can lose a small amount. Second, it keeps the people going out of groups inside the healing rains/mushrooms/other healing circles.

Second, the bonding cleave can and should be solo soaked by a mage/hunter/spriest/(probably more possible). Have everyone walk in melee range after cleave but that one person to make him/her the only available target for the bonding cleave. Reduces the healing requirement of the fight and makes it much simpler to manage bleed stacks in <30% phase as your normal soak groups aren't dealing with the charge stacks. Make sure your solo soakers are just not part of any group.

I assume that solo soaker is using a cooldown, aka Greater Invis for Mage to survive it solo?

[sarasun]

I assume that solo soaker is using a cooldown, aka Greater Invis for Mage to survive it solo?

Yes, we had mages do it with greater invis or Ice Block.

[Inocybe]

N Butcher your DPS has to be pulling 18k+, So for Heroic I'd assume its somewhere around 21k+.

I also dont get why you guys would spend so many times on a gear check boss.

It's 13-15K in normal, and 19K in heroic.

[Ellerain]

It's 13-15K in normal, and 19K in heroic.

There are little wiggling room at Butcher, but from what I see comparing your logs to our first kill:

- Bring 1-3 more dps shifting the dps/heal balance
- Make the soak groups 5-man instead of 4-man. Tell them to not clump after the knockback so they wont outnumber the Bounding Cleave group.
- With 5-man soak groups make sure that you are switching on 2 stacks pre-30% and on 3 stacks afterwards. This will happen naturally if your runners (1) don't wait for the stacks to drop from them before switching pre-30% and simply switch on ~3 seconds of debuff.
(2) do wait for the stacks to drop post-30%

- Run normal with the intent to gear up your tanks a bit if possible/funnel some BoE to them/help them with crafts.

Ans yes, warn the lowest DPS and replace him when you start to hit Enrage continuously. Rogue looked low in a couple of parses there I think.

[sarasun]

- Make the soak groups 5-man instead of 4-man. Tell them to not clump after the knockback so they wont outnumber the Bounding Cleave group.

This actually doesn't matter. Bounding Cleave will hit the biggest clump of players that is not in melee. You could have all your raid clumped up on the tank and he would still charge the lonely mage that's standing at range.

Exploit this, makes the fight much easier.

[Drkmalice]

i'll only talk about your discipline priest now, but imo he is not really healing correctly.
he pretty much only has to spam pw:s. casting heal is just not going to cut it.
I had over 120 casts of pw:s, your priest has a bit over 40. (my healing on butcher, which is not really perfect either, but that should give you an idea of how your disc should heal: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=5)
other than that, your dpsers need some boost as well.

I somewhat disagree. Looking at our 1st kill on Dec 4th our fight was similar in length and our priest has just about the same amount of PWS as theirs.

The main difference i can see between the two priests is his uses flash heal ours doesnt. Ours used prayer of healing and divine star and theirs doesnt.

They also had 6 people who did not use healthstones on their last/longest pull.

[Deleted]

Have one big group of ranged, one healer should be standing to the right out of this group and one helaer to left.

G1 melee at left leg1 g2 melee at right leg, melee should run and follow and dps butcher when he boundings.

reason for having two healers out of group is the healing. you need at the enrage.

also you need to do it during Mythic anyway to soak anyway.

dps at noraml 17k dps each, heroic 19.500 dps and you have the dps to kill him note that means is somone is lower than the above said somone in raid need to pull higher to compensate.

[Deleted]

There is a lot of potential for this fight that is unknown, and I have no idea why.

First, the idea that hunters have to be the ones going in/out of groups is bad. You should have melee do it. Instead of a triangle, form a square around the boss with the two soaking groups being adjacent corners to tanks and the opposite corner being empty. That corner is the location assigned melee DPS will use to get out of their groups. This achieves two things. One, melee will lose literaly 0 DPS doing this while hunters can lose a small amount. Second, it keeps the people going out of groups inside the healing rains/mushrooms/other healing circles.

Second, the bonding cleave can and should be solo soaked by a mage/hunter/spriest/(probably more possible). Have everyone walk in melee range after cleave but that one person to make him/her the only available target for the bonding cleave. Reduces the healing requirement of the fight and makes it much simpler to manage bleed stacks in <30% phase as your normal soak groups aren't dealing with the charge stacks. Make sure your solo soakers are just not part of any group.

Those aren't some huge things but they can help make the fight a lot smoother and simpler. Never seen anyone else than our guild using any of these two "tricks".

None uses these because it only makes simple fight much more harder. Hunters are best to go out/in because there is no DPS loss for them doing that, if they lose DPS they are just bad and dont know how to play their own class. Also that charge he makes to ranged isnt really that much damage. It's one cleave here and there with 1 stack on bleed. Hardest part to heal is melee groups and just save personal cooldowns to soft enrage, with lust and couple healing cooldowns. Boss usually just melts in this phase if you have proper DPS